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cybersnyder

What would today's shows score if teleported back to 1989?

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2 minutes ago, fanman said:

I agree that the stopwatch comparisons are silly. But couldn't disagree more about the 1992 BD closer....The crowd reacts to the music, but from a visual design standpoint, it's pretty boring and underdeveloped.

 

 

Yes. Yes it was. Even as a spectator at that show, we thought the music was awesome, but the drill didn’t hold a candle to the Cavies or Cadets, who were already pushing drill to crazy places, even back then. This was during a brief 5 or so years where the BD were a fan favorite but not in contention at all. Look at the cadets drill one year later in their championship, and it was terrific. 

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some would score high enough to make the top 12, and others wouldn't

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I think another interesting way to look at the present vs past debate is through the lens of the fans.  From a scoring perspective I think we all know the depth of musicianship and visual design would lend itself to today's corps. It's hard to deny the quality of brass and percussion playing we hear today. Guards are amazingly skilled as well. 

The rules were so different back in the day. Before DCI began in 1972 drum corps was largely very military with procedure and design. Off the line really mean off the starting line (stage left from the fans perspective). Even through the first 2 decades of DCI, corps were playing 2-valve bugles in G, no electronics, amps, narration, or singing were allowed. You could only have 128 on the field at most. 

Yesteryear's fans (at that time) would have booed loudly and complained viciously to DCI or any corps director who allowed their corps to use amps, synths, singing, narration, etc. Especially fans from the 60s and 70s. But even in the 80s this stuff would have felt blasphemous to many.  And while props are not new these days (think SCV in the 80s), the nature of today's massive props back in 1980 or 1990 would have received major complaints and groans.  All in all, if you took today's show and put them in 1980 or so, they would not be received well no matter how they scored. If you took 80s shows and put them in a competition today, they would seem dated but would otherwise be well received by the crowds...and dare I say in some cases the crowd might actually like hearing a less chopped-up music book, even if the visual is more traditional. 

There are exceptions to the rule, and I do think shows like 93 Cadets or Star would feel athletic and demanding even by today's standards...and enjoyable. Would they win? No. But they wouldn't be last either. Those brass and percussion lines were wicked good. The drills were fast and aggressive. Plenty of other comparisons like this when it comes to the exceptions.

Nonetheless, from a fans perspective, especially in the 70s and 80s, today's shows would not be well received...even if they were winning.

Edited by jwillis35
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2 hours ago, fanman said:

I agree that the stopwatch comparisons are silly. But couldn't disagree more about the 1992 BD closer....The crowd reacts to the music, but from a visual design standpoint, it's pretty boring and underdeveloped.

 

 

So you DON'T disagree with me.  I'm glad you posted the video.  This is what championship drumcorps looked like in that era.  This is a big impact moment and they wouldn't have been playing that ensemble rendition like that if they had been running all over creation.

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5 hours ago, cfirwin3 said:

I never understood the assertion being made in these types of (highly subjective) observations.

For example: Blue Devils 1992 (close to that era) played a closer that defined drumcorps for a couple generations.  But look at that absolutely wonderful and cherished moment:

They are 'moving' essentially the whole time while playing (some groups stop occasionally in the dice or in form, but there is motion constantly).  However... they are BARELY moving.  They are marching the drill style of the time, but that is essentially just a handful of set points with nothing pushing higher than an 8to5 step interval at a moderate rock tempo (sometimes in double time for some groups).  They are also playing out pretty full the entire time... but as with the drill, they are playing very accessible music all the while.

It's iconic, none the less.  It packs heavy GE, none the less.  But these 'stopwatch' comparisons seem to completely miss the forest from the trees nearly every time they are made (on the grounds that they lack context apart from considering timing of any motion vs. the application of any air to horns).

I'm not sure I even disagree with any of the opinion expressed here, but that's what it is: an opinion.

The timing I provided is, by contrast, fact. The amount of time some portion of the brass moves WHILE playing is much greater in Bloo '89 than in Bloo '19. There's nothing subjective about that statement. It can be measured. At most, it could be shown that I was factually wrong. But the way to demonstrate that is for someone else, or multiple people, to time the show themslves. And in the end some quantifiable determination would remain.

That said, I have not once claimed that these facts means that Bloo '89 was better than Bloo '19. You can't find me saying that. I have provided some facts that others can choose or not choose to use in reaching their own opinions.

The problem is that some people seem to think that facts should matter more than opinion.

(As for your example about BD '92, here's an interesting fact about Bloo '89: for most of their closer ("Sing Sing Sing") they don't march whlie playing. That six minutes I described mostly happens during their first two songs ("Johnny One Note" and "My Funny Valentine"). Again: a fact not an opinion.)

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1 hour ago, jwillis35 said:

INonetheless, from a fans perspective, especially in the 70s and 80s, today's shows would not be well received...even if they were winning.

And the shows of 2049 would likely receive similiar unfavorable responses today.

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In a discussion here two years ago, jwillis brought up a good point: corps in DCI's early years often played whole numbers without moving (apart from marking time). In a way, DCI's shows of the past few years have returned to their roots.

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2 hours ago, fanman said:

I agree that the stopwatch comparisons are silly. But couldn't disagree more about the 1992 BD closer....The crowd reacts to the music, but from a visual design standpoint, it's pretty boring and underdeveloped.

It's actually not so different from Blue Devils' 2017 ballad.

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24 minutes ago, N.E. Brigand said:

And the shows of 2049...

I don't even want to think about that. My best guess is a "show" will be 12 minutes of standstill poetry with some spa background music you would hear while getting a massage.  

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They wouldn't qualify because everyone plays on Bb not G bugles. End of discussion.

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