Cappybara Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Glenn426 said: F-ing lawyers man,.... These are mainly Non-Profit Youth organizations that provide a service to the Youth of the world to give them an avenue to perform and have life-changing experiences. As I stated earlier I would find it hard for a musician or arranger to come directly at DCI and attack them for not paying minuscule licensing fees. They are artist and want their work to be spread far and wide. Especially in this medium where the great majority of the consumption of the medium is done by Students, future Music Educators and current music educators. To say it is a Theft would be an unfair characterization. I say there should be special Education Licenses that would allow for the full rights of use of the music under time limitations, so that People who look at DCI and the marching arts activity as a whole and think that its Thievery can find something else to do with their time. That is weirdly presumptuous of you. Why do you assume every musician wants their music played by DCI corps? If I recall there are quite a few composers/estates that don't license out their music to DCI corps anymore for various reasons such as Bernstein and John Williams. By the laws currently set, what DCI did is definitely characterized accurately and thievery Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Cappybara said: That is weirdly presumptuous of you. Why do you assume every musician wants their music played by DCI corps? If I recall there are quite a few composers/estates that don't license out their music to DCI corps anymore for various reasons such as Bernstein and John Williams. By the laws currently set, what DCI did is definitely characterized accurately and thievery Some dont, You are right, but those that do after giving the group the license the arrange would be hard pressed to not allow the corps to allow their music to heard wherever and however within reason. Its a marching band using your music. The Original musicians are not going to earn their living by charging licensing fees to a marching band. And yes I agree the Laws as they are currently created are poop. They serve only one party, Lawyers (or those exhibiting the vile behavior of lawyers) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, Glenn426 said: Some dont, You are right, but those that do after giving the group the license the arrange would be hard pressed to not allow the corps to allow their music to heard wherever and however within reason. Its a marching band using your music. The Original musicians are not going to earn their living by charging licensing fees to a marching band. And yes I agree the Laws as they are currently created are poop. They serve only one party, Lawyers (or those exhibiting the vile behavior of lawyers) No they serve the artists as well. You are unfairly painting artists with one homogenous brush for no other reason than the fact that you want DCI video on demand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Corps Guy Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 (edited) How do you suggest the original composers get compensated? You appear to be suggesting that they give away their music for free and only the lawyers are benefitting. This leads me to believe some are not part of the 80% of people here that are musicians (my guess and nothing more), many of which do music for a living, and just want "Free Stuff" for your benefit. Did I go a bridge too far? Edited July 24, 2019 by Old Corps Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precious Roy Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 hour ago, cixelsyd said: Great. Now explain to me why we must divorce "live" streams from "on-demand" streams, in a manner that relegates us to choosing one or the other. The only thing that protects the composers from is additional profit. My guess... A live stream can be "sent" across the internet in a proprietary form, where you need something on the receiving end that is provided by the entity doing the streaming (an app of some sort, whether web browser based, or media streaming hardware based). The bits and bytes of the live stream go through the internet until they reach the end user, where they are immediately unpacked by the aforementioned app, and displayed. Nothing in this process is saved in a reusable file. Any buffers or caches are temporary. For "on demand" streaming, there needs to be a file sitting somewhere in a repository. So, the end user says "I'd like to watch this particular stream," and the provider goes to the file containing that stream and sends the file to the end user. The bits and bytes of the on demand stream are actually stored somewhere. Going to a concert of a musical artist (a live stream, of sorts) does not entitle you to the entire discography of that artist (which would be a form of on demand) without additional payment. They, too, are divorced of each other (as you say). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Fran Haring said: If I end up purchasing the DCA Finals feed this year, that #### thing better not get in the way. I don't even drink coffee. it was too hot to drink it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Old Corps Guy said: How do you suggest the original composers get compensated? You appear to be suggesting that they give away their music for free and only the lawyers are benefitting. This leads me to believe you are not part of the 80% of people here that are musicians (my guess and nothing more), many of which do music for a living, and just want "Free" for your benefit. The Composers where compensated before FLO came around, Since I can remember permissions had to be secured to perform and arrange music. I would assume that there was a fee paid to the composers and musicians involved. The laws where in place for Sync Rights, Performance Rights, etc.., but where not enforced because musicians and more importantly the Lawyers made their money from selling CDs. Now that CDs are a thing of the past the lawyers scrambled to find new ways to make money. Most successful musical acts make their money by having their music become popular enough to sell tickets to live shows. My thinking is that because there is no distribution happening the money that the Rights holders make from Concerts is not as much as the Sale of CD's used to make them. So they are trying to make money wherever and however they can. Even if that means squeezing the life out of a Non-profit Entity who serve the Youth of America. My point is that musicians and lawyers should have the discretion to know that the Marching arts activity are using your music to develop shows that gives Teens across america the chance to perform your music. These are not multi billion dollar corporations using your song for a commercial, or a Political Rally, The intention is wholesome and some concessions should be made. Musicians, composers, song writers make your money, but make your money from those who have money. Pick your battles. Don't stifle innovation and a truly great medium in the Marching arts by trying to squeeze what would amount to 0.05 % of the total yearly earnings from Licensing fees from a Drum corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Corps Guy Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Glenn426 said: Musicians, composers, song writers make your money, but make your money from those who have money. Pick your battles. Don't stifle innovation and a truly great medium in the Marching arts by trying to squeeze what would amount to 0.05 % of the total yearly earnings from Licensing fees from a Drum corps. Do you have any idea how little composers make? Most performers make very little money as well. Go to any bar and listen to a band play a gig. Then ask them afterwards if they have another job. I can tell you that most will answer yes. I want it free and make others pay for it is a very slippery slope. At some point, you run out of other people's money and then what are you left with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn426 Posted July 24, 2019 Author Share Posted July 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Old Corps Guy said: Do you have any idea how little composers make? Most performers make very little money as well. Go to any bar and listen to a band play a gig. Then ask them afterwards if they have another job. I can tell you that most will answer yes. I want it free and make others pay for it is a very slippery slope. At some point, you run out of other people's money and then what are you left with? Not Free, Reasonable. Not prohibitive. And the plight of the common Composer, Musician, Performer is a hard one. but it is one that they chose, Knowing that they would not make an honest living from if they don't have the talent or luck to stand out and make serious money. The same reason I chose to make the Marching arts a hobby and not pursue it as my sole source of income. I just want the laws to give special Educational concessions that would allow a musician or composer to allow their music to be used for educational purposes should they wish or be in the position to. If the musician needs the money and dont want to allow for an educational license then so be it, but at least they have that choice. At the moment separate licenses have to be secured for different things. Perhaps there are some discounts offered to the price of the different licenses, but additional licenses cost more money. To the point that it has been argued consistently that the cost would not be financially feasible given the current circumstance. And Corporations don't run out of money, Everything in our current capitalist environment is geared to protecting corporations and giving them advantages that normal working class people do not enjoy.. I will never argue for corporations like they are people, ever. they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted July 24, 2019 Share Posted July 24, 2019 32 minutes ago, Precious Roy said: My guess... A live stream can be "sent" across the internet in a proprietary form, where you need something on the receiving end that is provided by the entity doing the streaming (an app of some sort, whether web browser based, or media streaming hardware based). The bits and bytes of the live stream go through the internet until they reach the end user, where they are immediately unpacked by the aforementioned app, and displayed. Nothing in this process is saved in a reusable file. Any buffers or caches are temporary. For "on demand" streaming, there needs to be a file sitting somewhere in a repository. So, the end user says "I'd like to watch this particular stream," and the provider goes to the file containing that stream and sends the file to the end user. The bits and bytes of the on demand stream are actually stored somewhere. Semantics. In both cases, the data is stored as bits/bytes, under full control of the streaming provider. On FloMarching, you can pause the stream and resume play, delayed by the length of your pause. Quote Going to a concert of a musical artist (a live stream, of sorts) does not entitle you to the entire discography of that artist (which would be a form of on demand) without additional payment. They, too, are divorced of each other (as you say). That is not a fair comparison. No one here has asserted that viewing one performance should entitle the viewer to the entire discography of an artist. My point is that the music DCI units play is being synchronized to visual performances, and A/V of these performances are being captured and streamed. From a composer POV, what difference does it make whether that exact same video is streamed "live" or "on-demand"? How are those different "rights"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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