New Rule for the next conference

[Jeff Ream]

51 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

sure, but the issue at hand is whether the brass and perc would be penalized for that. I mean, if the rules allow pre-recorded music, the rules allow pre-recorded music. The fact that the judges would "spot" it is immaterial, no?

Or, are you saying that corps are free to completely fake their performances behind pre-recorded music, but they risk getting 0.0 on their brass/perc comp/ach caption scores?

And if that is your point, then we are left with a dissonance in the very idea of adjudication:

1. Pre-recorded music is okay. It can enhance your caption scores, even. Leaving it out can hurt your score, depending on circumstances. There are no limits on how much pre-recorded music can be used, or for what purposes or effect.
2. The brass and perc must play. Otherwise they get zeroes.

These two ideas are in conflict. Or, to be more generous, they are a check-and-balance against each other. Maybe you would see this as a creative tension, not a conflict. At a minimum, it is a codification of a gray area.

if you run around the field for several minutes not playing a note yet sounds come from the speakers....i'd say you won't get a ton of love

 

we're left with this...the rule to first allow anything not 100% acoustic was passed in 2002. Since then more and more rules have passed to add more to that in terms of what technology is allowed to be used and how.  Unless enough fans walk away and stop paying for the product, the designers won't be swayed to roll the rulebook backwards. it's that simple.

[Jeff Ream]

1 minute ago, Old Corps Guy said:

And once the button is hit, you have a metronome. 

Is that the Staples "Easy" button? Why, yes it is!

the key is hitting it on time. Remember physics come into play....trying to lock in with something behind you yet projecting sound forward...and there's no guarantee whats behind you stays in time the entire phrase.

[Old Corps Guy]

44 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

the key is hitting it on time. Remember physics come into play....trying to lock in with something behind you yet projecting sound forward...and there's no guarantee whats behind you stays in time the entire phrase.

Jeff, your starting to reach at this point.  The tempo is "locked in" once the recording starts.  Yes, projecting it forward is a true statement.  However, the tempo is still locked just like a metronome.

This is the dirty little secret behind pre-recorded audio.  Everyone knows it is happening.  They just don't want to talk about it.

Edited July 25, 2019 by Old Corps Guy

[Glenn426]

1 minute ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Jeff, your starting to reach at this point.  The tempo is locked on the recording once it starts.  Yes, projecting it forward is a true statement.  However, the tempo is still locked just like a metronome.

This is the dirty little secret behind prerecorded audio.  Everyone knows it is happening.  They just don't want to talk about it.

The two bar ostinato in the beginning of BLuecoats 2nd movement is a good example..

But with how good the corps are these days. I hardly think that they are having Ensemble issues or the corp is struggling to hit their tempos  within a couple of BPM. even without the Pre-recorded sample.

 

Now if there was an pre-recorded ostinato in HS marching bands shows that could definitely keep the tempos where they should be.

[2muchcoffeeman]

25 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said:

if you run around the field for several minutes not playing a note yet sounds come from the speakers....i'd say you won't get a ton of love

 

Maybe not, but what if the pre-recorded stuff is just stellar? What if it's so good that it overcomes the fact that the "musicians" aren't actually, you know, musicianing? If I understand the rulebook correctly, there is no boundary line defined. At the moment, the scales have tipped only slightly away from actual human acoustic performance. But what rule is in place to prevent the scales from tipping even further away from human-powered sound? As far as I am aware, there is none. And without any, it's only a matter of time before sound engineers get so good at this DCI thing that they no longer need to factor in live music.

I realize this is, today in 2019, a fevered slippery-slope argument, but does anyone have a good argument to offer against it? What evidence is there that adjudication will, at some point, penalize the overuse of pre-recorded music? Can anyone identify where that red line lies? Do the DCI members even want a red line?

(interesting side note: None of this affects the guard. In fact, this moves the musicians toward being an extension of the guard, and in the ultimate expression of this vision, the whole show becomes a dance routine. Dance Corps International, I suppose.)

 

[Old Corps Guy]

6 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

(interesting side note: None of this affects the guard. In fact, this moves the musicians toward being an extension of the guard, and in the ultimate expression of this vision, the whole show becomes a dance routine. Dance Corps International, I suppose.)

And this is why I started the conversation.  Some would say, and have already said, "This is the WGI-ification of drum corps"

[E3D]

9 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

Maybe not, but what if the pre-recorded stuff is just stellar? What if it's so good that it overcomes the fact that the "musicians" aren't actually, you know, musicianing? If I understand the rulebook correctly, there is no boundary line defined. At the moment, the scales have tipped only slightly away from actual human acoustic performance. But what rule is in place to prevent the scales from tipping even further away from human-powered sound? As far as I am aware, there is none. And without any, it's only a matter of time before sound engineers get so good at this DCI thing that they no longer need to factor in live music.

I realize this is, today in 2019, a fevered slippery-slope argument, but does anyone have a good argument to offer against it? What evidence is there that adjudication will, at some point, penalize the overuse of pre-recorded music? Can anyone identify where that red line lies? Do the DCI members even want a red line?

(interesting side note: None of this affects the guard. In fact, this moves the musicians toward being an extension of the guard, and in the ultimate expression of this vision, the whole show becomes a dance routine. Dance Corps International, I suppose.)

 

Which is why I have started up a new World Class corps. The 154th Dancers. We will be holding auditions this coming fall - two locations. Inspiration for the corps name of course comes from "we gave all we had and have nothing left to give" 27 Lancers. No more fooling around with music (we gave all we had) and were are going to dance our narrow a@@es off until there is (nothing left to give). 

Audition info for all the potential candidates. 

Northern location is @ Metronome Prerecorded Dance School,,, Ipswich Massachusetts and the southern location is @ Coast métronome School of Dance,,, Pass Christian Mississippi. 

[E3D]

13 minutes ago, Old Corps Guy said:

And this is why I started the conversation.  Some would say, and have already said, "This is the WGI-ification of drum corps"

WGI. That appears to be what everyone wants. 

I was going to say that this is were it will end up. For sure the train has left the station. 

[Jeff Ream]

59 minutes ago, Old Corps Guy said:

Jeff, your starting to reach at this point.  The tempo is "locked in" once the recording starts.  Yes, projecting it forward is a true statement.  However, the tempo is still locked just like a metronome.

This is the dirty little secret behind pre-recorded audio.  Everyone knows it is happening.  They just don't want to talk about it.

tempo is only locked in for one part of the total product. it has to be in time with everything around it. the drumline could be locked in at their tempo, the FE at their own tempo and so on.

[Jeff Ream]

27 minutes ago, 2muchcoffeeman said:

Maybe not, but what if the pre-recorded stuff is just stellar? What if it's so good that it overcomes the fact that the "musicians" aren't actually, you know, musicianing? If I understand the rulebook correctly, there is no boundary line defined. At the moment, the scales have tipped only slightly away from actual human acoustic performance. But what rule is in place to prevent the scales from tipping even further away from human-powered sound? As far as I am aware, there is none. And without any, it's only a matter of time before sound engineers get so good at this DCI thing that they no longer need to factor in live music.

I realize this is, today in 2019, a fevered slippery-slope argument, but does anyone have a good argument to offer against it? What evidence is there that adjudication will, at some point, penalize the overuse of pre-recorded music? Can anyone identify where that red line lies? Do the DCI members even want a red line?

(interesting side note: None of this affects the guard. In fact, this moves the musicians toward being an extension of the guard, and in the ultimate expression of this vision, the whole show becomes a dance routine. Dance Corps International, I suppose.)

 

effect is only 40 points. thats the only place it would get love if nothing is going on around it

 

and really the argument is this: DCI will pass what the corps want to pass. Fans complaints on DCP have never swayed them. The only reason WGI percussion still has the one sound one sound rule in effect is cause the guys that design shows for the websites have enough votes in their pocket to keep it from being changed. Why? It gets changed, they don't make as much money programming it all