East Coast Showcase -- Lawrence, MA -- 8/4

[George Dixon]

35 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

When we post  “ so and so corps would win if this was scored and it would not be close “, it’s not acknowledging that none  of these shows were designed to be assessed by fans in this fashion ( I did then notice you acknowledged this in your last sentence , but only after assessing who would have won ). Cavaliers would not have gone out with 22 in Guard this summer if they knew their mostly park and bark show would be judged and placed . Otherwise , about 8 other corps would top that and it “ would not be close “. Crown with 182 allowed on the field this summer would likely have topped both Bluecoats and Boston if this was scored and it “ would not have even been close “. But they won’t have 182 , nor 60 Guard on the field next summer in competition  Blue Stars won’t have 96 Brass , and Boston likely won’t have glitch screens , nor Cadets and Phantom doing retro shows from their past and in their iconic attire and shakos . It will be completely different  up and down the line in 2022 once BD and SCV return after 2 years off from competition by then and judges return and corps staffs design shows and corps sections with sophisticated designs and marcher demand in performance back in vogue and judged again in competition format .  I want so much to see and hear Phantom Regiment and the Cadets do retro shows again next summer and look like they do this year when judged in competition again . But I doubt we fans will see such delightful retro shows from them next season . Hope I am wrong in this , as both win over a lot of fans this year with these type of shows over the more modern that judges seem to like , and with the fans scoring “ it was not even close “ as to what they seemed to prefer last night from my vantage point anyway .

 

I'm not sure if I'm reading your intent correctly. Are you saying you want more "retro" shows or you don't think it will happen in 2022? I personally don't find those two programs that "retro" as both have been modernized to varying degrees. I think the thing BOTH programs do is set Cadets/Regiment up for a terrific winter of recruiting which was the goal IMO. As far as modern judging, I've seen the pendulum swing back and forth a few times, I think the prop thing peaked in 18/19 and we will see less of that in 22, costumes had a big moment in 17/18 ... this too shall pass to some degree. Trends mostly fade. 

Edited August 6, 2021 by George Dixon

[jwillis35]

28 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

When we post  “ so and so corps would win if this was scored and it would not be close “, it’s not acknowledging that none  of these shows were designed to be assessed by fans in this fashion ( I did then notice you acknowledged this in your last sentence , but only after assessing who would have won ). Cavaliers would not have gone out with 22 in Guard this summer if they knew their mostly park and bark show would be judged and placed . Otherwise , about 8 other corps would top that and it “ would not be close “. Crown with 182 allowed on the field this summer would likely have topped both Bluecoats and Boston if this was scored and it “ would not have even been close “. But they won’t have 182 , nor 60 Guard on the field next summer in competition  Blue Stars won’t have 96 Brass , and Boston likely won’t have glitch screens , nor Cadets and Phantom doing retro shows from their past and in their iconic attire and shakos . It will be completely different  up and down the line in 2022 once BD and SCV return after 2 years off from competition by then and judges return and corps staffs design shows and corps sections with sophisticated designs and marcher demand in performance back in vogue and judged again in competition format .  I want so much to see and hear Phantom Regiment and the Cadets do retro shows again next summer and look like they do this year when judged in competition again . But I doubt we fans will see such delightful retro shows from them next season . Hope I am wrong in this , as both won over a lot of fans this year with these type of music and marching shows over the more modern shows  that judges seem to like .  I know what the fans scoring would have been last nite  if this was scored by them and  “ it was not even close “ as to what they seemed to prefer in show designs and music and attire and headgear last night from my vantage point anyway .

 

That's exactly why I posted that last sentence. It's all hypothetical. Most of the corps this summer were not creating competitive shows. So my comments in regard to Bluecoats and Boston, as I responded to another person, were all just hypothetical scenarios and just opinions. So just take it for what it is. A comment that was specifically about this summer. Not 2022. 

As for the retro shows, I agree. The fans are loving them. Cadets have blown me away. Phantom has thrilled me. I would love to see some of that continue as it seems fans young and old are loving that style. But we all know that modern drum corps will be back next year in some form. Will anything we see this summer have somewhat of an effect on 2022? Not sure? 

Edited August 6, 2021 by jwillis35

[jwillis35]

4 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

I'm not sure if I'm reading your intent correctly. Are you saying you want more "retro" shows or you don't think it will happen in 2022? I personally don't find those too programs that "retro" as both have been modernized to varying degrees. I think the thing BOTH programs do is set Cadets/Regiment up for a terrific winter of recruiting which was the goal IMO. As far as modern judging, I've seen the pendulum swing back and forth a few times, I think the prop thing peaked in 18/19 and we will see less of that in 22, costumes had a big moment in 17/18 ... this too shall pass to some degree. Trends mostly fade. 

I agree that props do trend to come and go. They will always be there to some extent. It often comes down to how they get used. Blue Devils really did a fabulous job with theirs in 2019. But every show is different and sometimes I think what the Cadets are doing this year may work best. The prop is setup on the far left (fan perspective) and leaves the rest of the field un-cluttered. 

As for uniforms vs costumes...I have no clue where that is going. What Bluecoats did with the 2019 outfits was pretty brilliant. It was a type of uni yet they were all unique with colors and patterns that blended to create a uniform look. That kind of thing will certainly find its way into some shows down the road. But let's face it, it's not going to hurt these corps to have a throwback year once in a while. It's great for fans and the marchers, and I even think the designers can have some fun with it. 

[George Dixon]

2 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

I agree that props do trend to come and go. They will always be there to some extent. It often comes down to how they get used. Blue Devils really did a fabulous job with theirs in 2019. But every show is different and sometimes I think what the Cadets are doing this year may work best. The prop is setup on the far left (fan perspective) and leaves the rest of the field un-cluttered. 

As for uniforms vs costumes...I have no clue where that is going. What Bluecoats did with the 2019 outfits was pretty brilliant. It was a type of uni yet they were all unique with colors and patterns that blended to create a uniform look. That kind of thing will certainly find its way into some shows down the road. But let's face it, it's not going to hurt these corps to have a throwback year once in a while. It's great for fans and the marchers, and I even think the designers can have some fun with it. 

The clarity of the props for BD for the "clutter" of the props for Bluecoats in 2019 might be why BD won. (IMO) 

The members seem to like wearing uniforms - go read Reddit. 

[Terri Schehr]

26 minutes ago, George Dixon said:

 

The members seem to like wearing uniforms - go read Reddit. 

Oh I love that. 

[Terri Schehr]

1 minute ago, Terri Schehr said:

Oh I love that. 

Someone said exactly what I said…they don’t know who the heck they’re watching.

[Boss Anova]

1 hour ago, George Dixon said:

I'm not sure if I'm reading your intent correctly. Are you saying you want more "retro" shows or you don't think it will happen in 2022? I personally don't find those two programs that "retro" as both have been modernized to varying degrees. I think the thing BOTH programs do is set Cadets/Regiment up for a terrific winter of recruiting which was the goal IMO. As far as modern judging, I've seen the pendulum swing back and forth a few times, I think the prop thing peaked in 18/19 and we will see less of that in 22, costumes had a big moment in 17/18 ... this too shall pass to some degree. Trends mostly fade. 

Both . I would enjoy seeing and hearing retro shows again next summer that Cadets and Phantom Regiment did , along with a return in these shows to uniform and shako  identification . Phantom Regiment defined a “ retro show “ in my observation as it pretty much replicated in its entirety ( except percussion parts here snd there ) the show and music from 18 seasons ago. I thought it was wonderful . Cadets were a little les retro as they modernized some of it , and left out the signature Z pull . But it likewise was wonderful and a crowd favorite as a tradition based show design in attire and in visuals and in the familiar music played from their past .  But I posted also we will likely not see/ hear this once all these corps return to competition and judged by DCI judges . Do you think we will see Cadets and Phantom Reginent in traditional corps attire and corps colors and with retro styled marching and music playing next season when competition returns ? I believe that both will look and sound completely different next season , and that’s not necessarily a bad thing . Time will tell what all these corps will look and sound like once the DCI judges return . Historically however , we know they tend to reward , modern newness and innovation and creative innovation over tradition based shows , especially when it comes to the all important GE Music and GE Visual captions . Trends do fade . But rarely do Corps go back to what they did  before snd find that approach is a winning formula in scores and placements . It’s not unheard of . Just very rare . That’s why corps now that are most  successful now  ( TOP 6 )  are changing uniforms every season snd not going back to what they wore before if the show they know  is going to be judged . That said , I would love to see the Cadets back in their iconic cadet styled attire and headgear next season . I hope they return to this as a matter of fact .

 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Boss Anova

[jwillis35]

19 minutes ago, Boss Anova said:

Do you think we will see Cadets and Phantom Reginent in traditional corps attire and corps colors and with retro styled marching and music playing next season when competition returns ?

Good question. I think many are wondering this. With the more traditional approach to drum corps it all depends on how well it is constructed and performed. I do think Phantom and Cadets are set to recruit really well. Others too. I think Spirit has been a big hit, along with BK, Cavaliers, Blue Stars, Music City, etc. I think Madison has something to build on too and may recruit well for next year now that people can see what they are doing. But when it comes to uniforms vs costumes and tradition vs modern styles I think it's anyone guess what happens. I don't think the top tier corps will change much. Blue Devils, Bluecoats, Crown, SCV will continue to be who they are. Boston and Cavaliers will continue to push them for top spots. 

[KVG_DC]

1 hour ago, George Dixon said:

The clarity of the props for BD for the "clutter" of the props for Bluecoats in 2019 might be why BD won. (IMO) 

The members seem to like wearing uniforms - go read Reddit. 

At the same time, BD had a number of shows that were a 'clutter of white props' in years prior to Bloo's take on it. Metamorph was a fantastic show for the music, but the props for that always annoyed me for being clutter without sense.  Felliniesque was also a clutter of props, but sort of made sense as the whole visual was "here's the movie being filmed and over there is the backstage area behind the camera where other magic is happening to make the film happen."  

Clutter can actually work for me as long as it makes sense.  Bloo's giant chairs worked really well for me.  Crown's trampolines worked for me in Out of This World as well (although I still say they should have screen printed them to be planets or galaxies or nebulas and such for finals)

[rmurrey74]

52 minutes ago, Terri Schehr said:

Someone said exactly what I said…they don’t know who the heck they’re watching.

I just don't get this argument. Does it really matter that everyone is recognizable at the first show?  Can you REALLY not figure out who you're watching by a schedule, program, annoucement?   I saw Spirit's and Bluecoat's costumes online and now I immediately know it's Sprit and Bluecoats when I see pictures of them from other shows.  

Did this same outcry happen back in the day happen when the guard stopped wearing uniforms that were similar to the hornline and drumline?

WGI has a great fan base.  I never see arguments that drumlines and winterguard are not recognizable at first sight by a costume.  Everyone is completely different every year. There's no Music City Mystique costume or Pride of Cincinnati costume.  People look at the schedule of performances or hear the announcement prior to the show starting.  

I can understand not liking the more show specific costumes compared to traditional band uniforms. I just can't understand why not recognizing who is who is brought up as an issue over and over and over again.