Jeff Ream Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 18 minutes ago, NewToPosting said: Those are all reasons to invest in such a training. The training already exists! It actually takes them out of the accountability realm, in some regards. If everyone is trained to report correctly, resources are utilized correctly. It's pretty clear what staff would have to do (at least the training that WGI did) and it's not overly complicated. I know many winterguards feel a sigh of relief for having this in place, because similar to DCI, winterguards were doing a lot of investigating and adjudicating on their own. It's not their place! you're speaking logically. This is DCI we are talking about. DCI is structured so the corps have all the power. and they get as much of the income as possible. Doing it logically means you give up power and money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: wow. thank you for this...very enlightening, and it does appear to sum up the ( continuing to be proven) flawed process DCI seems to have in place Plus what Kathy posted that you responded to. Thinking my job it was workers duty to report and give evidence of what they saw or heard. (We were trained in that.) For harassment first step was supervisors to work with affected employees (victim and harasser) to stop from happening again. (Usually someone being stupid and told what was wrong and quit doing it.) Supervisors were trained for this role. For serial harassers and assault it went above supervisors to people (outside of agency) who were trained in investigation and giving out punishment as needed. IOW for these cases it handled by people specifically trained for handling harassment/assault and not people where dealing with harassment/assault was only a part of their regular duties. FYI to those who don’t know me: I was a civilian working for the Navy so same training and procedures as entire Department of Defense, military and civilians. Edited January 11, 2022 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said: I can address the first two of those as it's what I do for a living. Training cost is not as much as one night think to create materials. Instructional designers charge roughly $65 to $100 an hour to create materials. A four hour course for something like this would take roughly 100 hours of development. Maybe less as this topic has been created literally thousands of times. So figure for ID work about 10K. Upload it to an LMS with an enrollment, testing and tracking. There are companies who do this end to end. The cost for that is minimal. They pull the reports and send them back so you have a snapshot of compliance. It's not hard. I did an e-learning course on accessibility issues for designers over the summer and it took me less than 6 hours including voice over work. true but you have to do it for all staff and volunteers...unless you make the individuals pay for it, it adds up. remember these are not multimillion corporations here. These are drum corps that live off of whatever shows they can hold and alumni begathons. And as we have seen when it comes to fiscal reality, well.....this is DCI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 46 minutes ago, Lance said: Sorry for calling you confused when you're not. Now I get what you were saying, and we're really saying the same thing. It shouldn't be the responsibility of an instructor/educator/teacher to do any investigating, counseling, etc regarding issues of abuse. If a student tells us about abuse, we report it. Not our job to investigate or make judgment calls of any kind. We get trained on observable behaviors and physical signs that are typical of abuse that we see, and then report them or run the very real risk of getting charged with a crime. Experts take over from there, and again, I'm not talking about some "Compliance Officer" within the org. Until somebody or a group of somebody's step up and take responsibility as a governing org for the whole activity, the problem is going to stay the same. That's really my only point. Agreed - when I saw stuff going on that led me to question (in this particular case) the mental health of a student, I got in touch with the office that addresses this & they got involved. The student came later to thank me. But, the reason I knew to call the correct office was that I had to endure several 'Death by PowerPoint' training sessions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daave Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: for the record all of world class are members, not just the top 12 Minus Genesis and Music City? As I recall, both were scheduled to be voted on for full membership and voting "privileges"; and then the year off happened followed by last year? I never heard or saw any such announcements if that had ever been addressed; too include last weeks meetings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 39 minutes ago, Weaklefthand4ever said: I can address the first two of those as it's what I do for a living. Training cost is not as much as one night think to create materials. Instructional designers charge roughly $65 to $100 an hour to create materials. A four hour course for something like this would take roughly 100 hours of development. Maybe less as this topic has been created literally thousands of times. So figure for ID work about 10K. Upload it to an LMS with an enrollment, testing and tracking. There are companies who do this end to end. The cost for that is minimal. They pull the reports and send them back so you have a snapshot of compliance. It's not hard. I did an e-learning course on accessibility issues for designers over the summer and it took me less than 6 hours including voice over work. Legal fees arising from a sexual assault lawsuit or criminal inditement can easily reach 6 figures, even with a plea deal and no actual trial (I suspect a certain former Corps director can confirm this). And the legal fees don't go away if there is an acquittal. Spending +/- 15k for the training you describe is a no-brainer, yet Corps resist. I am also surprised that Corps can afford insurance when this kind of training isn't in place. I wonder if the insurance carriers are aware? And in most (if not all) states it is impossible to get insurance that covers criminal liability - for example auto insurance doesn't cover cost of speeding tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: I am also surprised that Corps can afford insurance when this kind of training isn't in place. I wonder if the insurance carriers are aware? And in most (if not all) states it is impossible to get insurance that covers criminal liability - for example auto insurance doesn't cover cost of speeding tickets. Wish I would have asked how much money my old church saved in insurance when they started anti-child abuse procedures. Insurance company made the recommendation and guided church leadership in implementing. And how badly will insurance costs go up (if they don’t get cancelled) when incidents (badly handled and otherwise) occur Edited January 11, 2022 by JimF-LowBari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Poppycock said: DCI is a show promoter that organize and present live music events. They're not interested in being a governing body. The member corps should establish mandatory, enforceable rules, but that won't happen. This is due to the organizational structure put in place for 50 years to only serve its member organizations, and those people whose livelihoods depend on the very existence of the organization and show promoter. Training, self-awareness, social awareness, and organizational awareness should be instituted throughout the activity. However, there is the risk of collaboration between the accused individual(s), organization and DCI to sweep the issue under the rug with the 'there is nothing to see here mentality', or 'that's old news' explanation from the same parties. We have seen a precedent of non-action on numerous occasions. IMO - Those who believe they are victims of sexual harassment, abuse, and assault should report the exchange directly to the local police of where the incident occurred or happened immediately. (911) is your friend. A specially trained police officer is better equipped and prepared to handle the particular situation to document and/or make an arrest. Remember there is no limitation on when a victim can report a crime to police, but sooner is better than later. Agree. In another post I suggested that DCI IMHO needs to move to a model something like the NFL. The NFL commissioner (Goodell) is empowered & paid by the owners to deal with difficult issues (recently TBI, player off-field behavior, etc) so the owners don't have to. Individual owners may not like what he does, but they know that it needs to happen for the good, even survival, of the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 10 minutes ago, Daave said: Minus Genesis and Music City? As I recall, both were scheduled to be voted on for full membership and voting "privileges"; and then the year off happened followed by last year? I never heard or saw any such announcements if that had ever been addressed; too include last weeks meetings? Both took themselves out of consideration, from what I was told this fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keystone3ply Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeff Ream said: for the record all of world class are members, not just the top 12 1 hour ago, rpbobcat said: Sorry, I wasn't clear. I thought it was the top 12 corps that "controlled" the organization. Well, no. It's actually this guy: 😁😇 Edited January 11, 2022 by keystone3ply cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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