lawdn Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Triple Forte said: This is a nice story but clearly this person who saw a drum corps for the first time was attracted to what they know most. How much does the same person know about flag , rifle and saber mechanics and technique? it’s not dance troop it’s color guard Given how many DCPers dismiss the assessments of highly-experienced, trained judges whose job it is to award the actual scores, apparently no one on Earth can accurately assess the activity. Maybe it is time to turn that over to AI and machine learning, and we will see how the activity evolves. Edited August 4, 2022 by lawdn 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 3 minutes ago, lawdn said: Given how many DCPers dismiss the assessments of highly-experienced, trained judges whose job it is to award the actual scores, apparently no one on Earth can accurately assess the activity. Maybe it is time to turn that over to AI and machine learning, and we will see how the activity evolves. I mean, people get an opinion, and people can also disagree - it's human. So yes, I guess AI is the way.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdn Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 8 minutes ago, George Dixon said: I mean, people get an opinion, and people can also disagree - it's human. So yes, I guess AI is the way.. To me the inevitable subjective element in turning an activity with artistic elements into a judged competition is part of the fascination. I have no issue with people trying to understand the scores and sometimes disagreeing with them when they give clear reasons for it, and that can be part of the fun, but to me judges can’t be “wrong” because they are the ones hired to do the job, and their scores are official and final. Anyway, if we all agreed with with the scores all the time, it would take away literally decades of entertainment on DCP with rehashing of past years’ results. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppycock Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, George Dixon said: I mean, people get an opinion, and people can also disagree - it's human. Assessment/evaluation and scoring are very different! IMO scores are irrelevant and we’re made irrelevant with the hundreds of a point adoption. IMO Ordinal’s are better because you are recognized in relationship to other performances. No one judging can explain a tenth delta within any one sub caption, so just enter the ordinal. The fact that a judge can change any score for any corps while the show is still taking place is also where we have unrealistic scoring. BTW scoring for any event is linear based on previous scores within sub captions. It would be refreshing to see scoring based on each individual performance instead of the linear equation. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdn Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 34 minutes ago, Poppycock said: BTW scoring for any event is linear based on previous scores within sub captions. It would be refreshing to see scoring based on each individual performance instead of the linear equation. You always make a good case re: performance and scoring - thank you. The ordinal idea is intriguing and could reduce arbitrary spreads, with the one downside being large differentials in a corps’ content and achievement versus other corps not being reflected, but there will always be tradeoffs. Could you please clarify for me what you mean by linear equation? Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironlips Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 Dusting off my adjudicator hat for a moment, permit me the following opinion: Our entire beloved activity is built upon a logical absurdity, i.e., that it is possible to assign a precise (or even relative) quantitative value to something which is qualitative in nature. It will only ever be an exercise in approximation, at best. Hat off. Horns down. 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 2 hours ago, lawdn said: Given how many DCPers dismiss the assessments of highly-experienced, trained judges whose job it is to award the actual scores, apparently no one on Earth can accurately assess the activity. Maybe it is time to turn that over to AI and machine learning, and we will see how the activity evolves. I'm on Earth and can assess the activity. The shows I like win - there is the assessment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawdn Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 20 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: I'm on Earth and can assess the activity. The shows I like win - there is the assessment. Enjoying the shows, for the win! 👍 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 1 minute ago, lawdn said: Enjoying the shows, for the win! 👍 Troopers 2022 DCI Champs. I would need to see BAC & BD back-to-back to determine 2nd-3rd place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecoats88 Posted August 4, 2022 Share Posted August 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Poppycock said: Assessment/evaluation and scoring are very different! IMO scores are irrelevant and we’re made irrelevant with the hundreds of a point adoption. IMO Ordinal’s are better because you are recognized in relationship to other performances. No one judging can explain a tenth delta within any one sub caption, so just enter the ordinal. The fact that a judge can change any score for any corps while the show is still taking place is also where we have unrealistic scoring. BTW scoring for any event is linear based on previous scores within sub captions. It would be refreshing to see scoring based on each individual performance instead of the linear equation. scoring should be based on relativity to others in that show and how the corps performed in that show. first corps on should get a score based on the sheets and the judges best interpretation of those sheets. 2nd corps on should be given a score commensurate with how much better or worse the judge assessed them to be in relation to the previous corps and give them a number accordingly. rinse and repeat through the remainder of the corps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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