Madison Scouts 2023

[Hook'emCavies]

I'm hoping for an entertaining show! 

[Tenoris4Jazz]

4 hours ago, C.Holland said:

Its a sold experience to students, not necessarily a competition.  The competition is sold to ticket buyers. 

I know what you meant here, and I will give you the Cincinnati Reds as a comparative.  Reds fans have been sold anything but a competitive or fun team for a decade.  The players simply get paid to keep playing baseball.  You march where you can if what you want is the experience.  Why do fans keep paying to see Reds games?  They love baseball, win or lose.  Some MM's want competition, some just want to learn from marching.  There's room for both.

[DudleytheWest]

6 hours ago, C.Holland said:

well... i'm not sure how to put this so i'll just toss this statement out. 

2023 DCI (and at least the last decade) has a new era of student different from the time period you or I marched. 

seriously, please go ask current members about THEIR goals for themselves, their sections, their corps are, and their very short career as a member might be, and what they think about the activity and why they spend thousands upon thousands of dollars (we're looking at good used car $$$$ here... or even the Berklee Spain Summer music intensive for LESS than world class costs while you study much more than 11 min of music) to do this.  Especially when they only may have 1 or 2 seasons of cash which they can afford. 

I would suggest all corps (save for a very few choice corps with incredible development boards and funding programs) are simply grateful to be able to exist right now and offer training and tour experiences beyond what they got in high school.  Heck, some tour better than we do in rock n roll and theatre.  Its a sold experience to students, not necessarily a competition.  The competition is sold to ticket buyers. 

The competition may be sold to ticket buyers but the corps themselves want to win. Otherwise, shows wouldn't be only designed for the judges - they'd be designed for the fans. The last show I was at was Stanford in 2018. I won't go to a show again. I also won't subscribe to Flo again. Last year, I started watching all the shows but by the end of the season I was only watching Regiment, Vanguard and Bluecoats. Everyone else, honestly, bored the #### out of me. It's just not worth my time or money anymore. I'll see videos from different places and people at the start of this season to see if anything changes and makes me want to subscribe, but I'm not betting on it. I'm not some old fogie who hates changes. I love the use of props, electronics and the new uniform style for example, I just don't want boring and that's what you get with today's DCI. The musicality, for example, is gone. We've lost it because musicality isn't in itself complex or difficult enough - it doesn't score well. Instead we have to butcher the Beatles music with endless runs (now Bloo's show was my favorite show of 2019, but to me we lost the essence of the Beatles). It's like that with everyone these days.

So, while there are a wide range of objectives, winning (or making finals), or making top 5 is still an objective. If it wasn't we'd have shows designed for fans, and the all the politics in judging wouldn't matter, but they sure do. I have a judge friend who has told me all about the politics in judging and how they quit judging because they didn't feel they could judge according to their conscience, but instead were pressured to judge a certain way. It's absurd.

Edited June 13, 2023 by DudleytheWest

[Mello Dude]

18 hours ago, DudleytheWest said:

So, while there are a wide range of objectives, winning (or making finals), or making top 5 is still an objective. If it wasn't we'd have shows designed for fans, and the all the politics in judging wouldn't matter, but they sure do. I have a judge friend who has told me all about the politics in judging and how they quit judging because they didn't feel they could judge according to their conscience, but instead were pressured to judge a certain way. It's absurd.

Not the first nor last time we hear of this I am afraid.

[C.Holland]

21 hours ago, Tenoris4Jazz said:

I know what you meant here, and I will give you the Cincinnati Reds as a comparative.  Reds fans have been sold anything but a competitive or fun team for a decade.  The players simply get paid to keep playing baseball.  You march where you can if what you want is the experience.  Why do fans keep paying to see Reds games?  They love baseball, win or lose.  Some MM's want competition, some just want to learn from marching.  There's room for both.

this is the current state of DCI.  

please.  get off the keyboard here, and go to a rehearsal and talk to the members.  ask them their ultimate goals for themselves, for this season, for their very short and expensive drum corps careers, and why they marched where they march.    

 

dont feed your own narrative into what they've been choosing. 

[C.Holland]

20 hours ago, DudleytheWest said:

The competition may be sold to ticket buyers but the corps themselves want to win. Otherwise, shows wouldn't be only designed for the judges - they'd be designed for the fans. The last show I was at was Stanford in 2018. I won't go to a show again. I also won't subscribe to Flo again. Last year, I started watching all the shows but by the end of the season I was only watching Regiment, Vanguard and Bluecoats. Everyone else, honestly, bored the #### out of me. It's just not worth my time or money anymore. I'll see videos from different places and people at the start of this season to see if anything changes and makes me want to subscribe, but I'm not betting on it. I'm not some old fogie who hates changes. I love the use of props, electronics and the new uniform style for example, I just don't want boring and that's what you get with today's DCI. The musicality, for example, is gone. We've lost it because musicality isn't in itself complex or difficult enough - it doesn't score well. Instead we have to butcher the Beatles music with endless runs (now Bloo's show was my favorite show of 2019, but to me we lost the essence of the Beatles). It's like that with everyone these days.

So, while there are a wide range of objectives, winning (or making finals), or making top 5 is still an objective. If it wasn't we'd have shows designed for fans, and the all the politics in judging wouldn't matter, but they sure do. I have a judge friend who has told me all about the politics in judging and how they quit judging because they didn't feel they could judge according to their conscience, but instead were pressured to judge a certain way. It's absurd.

zzzzZZZZZzzzZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzz.

 

right.  see again. you can stop with your own narrative and seriously go talk to the students marching.   no one cares on the field at this point.  the people worrying about a number are a very small number in each corps, and the majority has a different objective.  

 

but go ask the darned students. 

[DudleytheWest]

5 hours ago, C.Holland said:

zzzzZZZZZzzzZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzz.

 

right.  see again. you can stop with your own narrative and seriously go talk to the students marching.   no one cares on the field at this point.  the people worrying about a number are a very small number in each corps, and the majority has a different objective.  

 

but go ask the darned students. 

I don't need to ask the darned students. You are pushing your own BS narrative and that's the problem with the Scouts - the BOD and people such as yourself who make excuses and accept the current competitive state of the corps.

If competition wasn't important to the majority of marching members they all wouldn't be trying to march BD, Bluecoats, Crown, Boston and other top corps AND Madison wouldn't have members leaving every year to march those corps.

You can go ahead and support the administration and creative team who has turned Madison into a FEEDER CORPS, and continue to make excuses for their FAILURES, but I won't.

You are the problem. Not me.

Edited June 15, 2023 by DudleytheWest

[BlueStainGlass]

12 hours ago, DudleytheWest said:

I don't need to ask the darned students. You are pushing your own BS narrative and that's the problem with the Scouts - the BOD and people such as yourself who make excuses and accept the current competitive state of the corps.

If competition wasn't important to the majority of marching members they all wouldn't be trying to march BD, Bluecoats, Crown, Boston and other top corps AND Madison wouldn't have members leaving every year to march those corps.

You can go ahead and support the administration and creative team who has turned Madison into a FEEDER CORPS, and continue to make excuses for their FAILURES, but I won't.

You are the problem. Not me.

You've made DCP feel like DCP again

[Mello Dude]

26 minutes ago, BlueStainGlass said:

You've made DCP feel like DCP again

Passion for the activity and making a great points.  Ya, loads better than RAMD.  It's obvious to a blind person Madison has lost or rejected its' identity.  Having exciting shows was kind of the "Madison" thing.  Hell I marched others corps but I ALWAYS made it a point to watch their shows.  The golf clap people have won and it's kind of sad.

  

[C.Holland]

13 hours ago, DudleytheWest said:

I don't need to ask the darned students. You are pushing your own BS narrative and that's the problem with the Scouts - the BOD and people such as yourself who make excuses and accept the current competitive state of the corps.

If competition wasn't important to the majority of marching members they all wouldn't be trying to march BD, Bluecoats, Crown, Boston and other top corps AND Madison wouldn't have members leaving every year to march those corps.

You can go ahead and support the administration and creative team who has turned Madison into a FEEDER CORPS, and continue to make excuses for their FAILURES, but I won't.

You are the problem. Not me.

they're not.  but again... don't ask, don't know.

however you sure told me.  man.   its like you've not been in this activity in 30 years.  but hey.. that's cool. burst your outburst. cry your cries.  go mow your lawn. might make ya feel better.

might want to ask what the retention rate is.  or ask the admin. they answer emails pretty well.

or again, ask the students why they go where they go.  (following a certain instructor, or a certain snare line, or a choreographer...  or even a show style... all fairly common reasons much more so than "i'd like to win a ring".

but if you don't need to ask the students you already know what's in their heads. 

but again... you must be really good a understanding your students who march.   woof.  hahahahahahahahahaha.
 

Edited June 15, 2023 by C.Holland