Time to make all electronics part of the performance?

[grimmo]

I hesitate to open up this debate, again, but it's a lingering thought that has stayed with me since the season end, so here goes...

For all the excellence on display this past season the presence of adult audio engineers - anywhere from two to several - surrounding the mixing desk just doesn't sit right with me. 

The use of electronics to support the acoustic sound is more pervasive than ever, and there's no doubt it's highly effective in adding texture, impact and other nuances to the sound reaching the stand. Like most innovations it's been led by the top tier and has trickled down from there. This year I noticed in particular how much the soundscape seemed to develop for SCV and Cadets among others as the season progressed, and some where it was present right off the bat. I'm not for one second challenging that this element of the production is not positive, it certainly enhanced the the corps mentioned to my ears,  but I do question again how it is achieved.

 

To use an exaggeration to make the point. Imagine a corps is needing a bump in musical effect and so they throw a ton of cash to hire Ben Burtt and a crew from  Skywalker Sound. The crew bring an amazing palette of cutting edge electronic sound support, and audio-based 'smoke and mirrors'  as hoped. This, together with the presence of a couple of Academy award winning engineers on the sideline, and a world class proprietary speaker setup, all has a positive influence on how things are received by the judging community. The corps receive the bump they hoped for and more. A new standard is then set to which others then aspire.

This would surely take things still further away from the principle of what is judged on the night being in the hands of the young performers? 

Now that electronics has had plenty of time to bed in and then mature, is it time to adjust the balance away from adult pros controlling the mix (and whatever chicanery might be initiated from the desk) and mandate those people are registered marching members?  The adult pros can still very much be involved during rehearsal time, but would it be a positive move to preserve everything that happens once the drum major salutes being solely performer led?

 

 

 

[keystone3ply]

I'm "all in". 😂  Bring back the original & give us a disco show!  

 

 

[Fred Windish]

There is NO doubt, ever since the use of electronic enhancement was introduced to better hear that one soloist, electronic use has only become more pervasive. Electronics in drum corps has moved well beyond the “just a little boost” stage. 
 
So, when does expanding our performance horizons end?  I say, never. It’s just not part of our creative nature. The risk is creating just another rock concert, wherein no amount of bells and whistles, laser lighting and flash bangs is too much.

Today’s younger participants and audiences are weird this way. They need to make a bigger statement than the other guy.  Bless their hearts!

 

Edited September 5, 2022 by Fred Windish

[Terri Schehr]

31 minutes ago, keystone3ply said:

I'm "all in". 😂  Bring back the original & give us a disco show!  

 

 

Disco? Don’t make me do it. https://www.morningbrew.com/daily/stories/disco-demolition-night-43rd-anniversary

Edited September 5, 2022 by Terri Schehr

[cixelsyd]

29 minutes ago, grimmo said:

I hesitate to open up this debate, again, but it's a lingering thought that has stayed with me since the season end, so here goes...

For all the excellence on display this past season the presence of adult audio engineers - anywhere from two to several - surrounding the mixing desk just doesn't sit right with me. 

The use of electronics to support the acoustic sound is more pervasive than ever, and there's no doubt it's highly effective in adding texture, impact and other nuances to the sound reaching the stand. Like most innovations it's been led by the top tier and has trickled down from there. This year I noticed in particular how much the soundscape seemed to develop for SCV and Cadets among others as the season progressed, and some where it was present right off the bat. I'm not for one second challenging that this element of the production is not positive, it certainly enhanced the the corps mentioned to my ears,  but I do question again how it is achieved.

 

To use an exaggeration to make the point. Imagine a corps is needing a bump in musical effect and so they throw a ton of cash to hire Ben Burtt and a crew from  Skywalker Sound. The crew bring an amazing palette of cutting edge electronic sound support, and audio-based 'smoke and mirrors'  as hoped. This, together with the presence of a couple of Academy award winning engineers on the sideline, and a world class proprietary speaker setup, all has a positive influence on how things are received by the judging community. The corps receive the bump they hoped for and more. A new standard is then set to which others then aspire.

This would surely take things still further away from the principle of what is judged on the night being in the hands of the young performers? 

Now that electronics has had plenty of time to bed in and then mature, is it time to adjust the balance away from adult pros controlling the mix (and whatever chicanery might be initiated from the desk) and mandate those people are registered marching members?  The adult pros can still very much be involved during rehearsal time, but would it be a positive move to preserve everything that happens once the drum major salutes being solely performer led?

I do not want to minimize your point, because I agree.  After all, this is a youth activity claiming to be of educational value.  All the poppycock about amplification/electronics being "necessary" in this activity to achieve "relevance" in the greater world of modern music would make more sense if corps members were actually learning to implement the technology in real-time performance situations.  We do not allow adult staff to perform the trumpet high notes, snare features, solo dancer roles, or anything else in the performance... except the sound board.  Curious.

However, I have to ask two questions.

1.  How does your suggestion change your Skywalker Sound hypothetical, aside from who touches the board during the contest?

2.  When a corps is on the field, and their electronics are dead on arrival, are we all willing to put corps members on the spot to either troubleshoot the problem successfully, or perform without A&E... and to make those calls as lateness penalties accrue in real-time?  (Or alternately, are we all willing to waive penalties and push other corps off schedule in order to provide unlimited setup time?)

[grimmo]

15 minutes ago, cixelsyd said:

However, I have to ask two questions.

1.  How does your suggestion change your Skywalker Sound hypothetical, aside from who touches the board during the contest?

2.  When a corps is on the field, and their electronics are dead on arrival, are we all willing to put corps members on the spot to either troubleshoot the problem successfully, or perform without A&E... and to make those calls as lateness penalties accrue in real-time?  (Or alternately, are we all willing to waive penalties and push other corps off schedule in order to provide unlimited setup time?)

 Good points...

1. I suppose it's about aligning a boundary for electronics performance to the rest of the production. The experts can be involved to whatever degree right up to the point the performance starts. I guess this then raises questions about how much is then pre-programmed versus done live, but that tail shouldn't wag the dog.

 

2. I think this can continue as-is right up to the point the show starts. Same principle as  prepping a tarp or prop?

[waliman4444]

I'm not a professional musician, but to my ear, the electronic bass sound that is so pervasive, almost eliminates the Contra/Tuba dynamic...Also, I've noticed more help being given to other brass sections, particularly at points of crescendo...The keytar player from Bloo ( as good as he was) often overshadowed some of   the brass statements .If that was what was intended, mission accomplished but I miss the pure brassiness unadulterated..However, when electronics are used discreetly, it definitely adds to my listening experience, like the celloist from F Troop..all the above is just my opinion..peace

[Boss Anova]

1 hour ago, grimmo said:

 

 

 

Now that electronics has had plenty of time to bed in and then mature, is it time to adjust the balance away from adult pros controlling the mix (and whatever chicanery might be initiated from the desk) and mandate those people are registered marching members?  The adult pros can still very much be involved during rehearsal time, but would it be a positive move to preserve everything that happens once the drum major salutes being solely performer led?

 

 

 

 In a word..... yes. However, this really is up to the corps to take up for discussion at a future winter meeting and see if this has merit for implementation. As it stands now, its hard to disagree that sideline adult sound engineers ( way overage... lol) have significant impact on the current judging sheets, ie GE Music scores, and the like.

 

[corps8294]

Whatever about the electronics; but can the folks at DCP please get rid of that horrid "rarest human diseases" ad? 🤢🤮

[keystone3ply]

25 minutes ago, corps8294 said:

Whatever about the electronics; but can the folks at DCP please get rid of that horrid "rarest human diseases" ad? 🤢🤮

Yup; I clicked on it to see what was up with the eyeball.  Took me to a black hole & almost didn't make it out alive... 😁