Per the California Attorney General Vanguard is operating illegally as a non profit

[IllianaLancerContra]

3 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

All valid points. I am not wild about the increased membership to 165. I get it from a bus standpoint that 55 seats x 3 charters = 165 so they might as well fill each bus and pull the extra revenue. I don't know that the extra cash really amounts to that much considering you have to feed those additional members not to mention extra space for housing, more instruments (whether it be brass, percussion, pit, or equipment for guard). Yes, it all pays for itself but how much gain is there when you get down to profit? I will leave that to those with better numbers than I have.

My preference is a max size of 150 for each corps. Even that feels too large considering I never had an issue with 128. But going over 150 is starting to feel too large for effective competition at this level. I don't see a problem with leaving a few seats empty on each Bus -- which can be used for other things. If drum corps can't make it work financially with 50 seats filled on each charter bus then they have other issues. If the health of the whole activity is a concern then I do think there should be some care taken with what the best max number should be. 

As a counterpoint to my objections above I can definitely hear some friends of mine saying "If the goal is to grow drum corps then let's fill those charters. Let's get more kids involved so corps outside of the top 12 can also fill those seats." 

As for your comment about Vanguard being the END of the END I certainly hope not. I do think the tides have shifted. The days of just running some bingo and recruiting kids from all over the country may not work anymore. I think building a local base is going to be important. I said this in an earlier post on this thread and I will say it again: I believe the long-term health of the Vanguard Organization will come from their local commitment to the Santa Clara/San Jose region and will be best served through their Cadet corps and other Youth initiatives. 

 

There are others on tour w/ the Corps that could fill the seats - food personnel, health personnel, instructors.   Fill the bus seats and you might be able to remove a vehicle from the convoy.  And that would save $.  

[denverjohn]

On 5/13/2023 at 4:13 PM, BigW said:

This was done 50 years ago with the "First Federal Blue Stars."

IIRC there was a kerfluffle back then from other competitors. Commercialism, crass, so on and so forth.

Circa 1980, there was a small corps in NJ called Fantasia III that competed in Garden State and DCE which had, if I remember a Burger King sponsorship and they had a BK flag in the Main Guard, which caused another kerfluffle from competitors. Needless to say, they folded after that mainly because they lost sponsorship over rules changes, pressure, and complaints from other competitors if I remember correctly.

 

Then we had Suncoast and the Circle K fiasco, biting the hand that feeds you monetarily is never smart.

 

There's been a real resistance to these kinds of things for literally decades. The situation now is that the spice must flow, the corps are looking at seven figure budgets. There's no scaling down or looking back. 

 

FYI... I'm finally healthy enough to try and post again. Been reading for several months when I felt up to it. When Jeff and his Dad saw me at Williamsport DCA... I was pretty ill. Been a long road to recovery. If not for the discipline I learned in this activity- If I was really, really, lucky, I'd be on dialysis. Not lucky, prolly gone from a stroke.... It takes a heckuva lot to kill a Baritone Player.

I remember the green and orange attired Babylon Islanders sporting 7-Up logo flags as they competed in the Long Island M&M circuit. Cadets had K-mart flags one season.

Edited May 17, 2023 by denverjohn
typo

[MGCpimpOtimp]

3 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

There are others on tour w/ the Corps that could fill the seats - food personnel, health personnel, instructors.   Fill the bus seats and you might be able to remove a vehicle from the convoy.  And that would save $.  

Mixing members with Adult staff/volunteers is an absolute non-starter this day and age.

[IllianaLancerContra]

1 minute ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:

Mixing members with Adult staff/volunteers is an absolute non-starter this day and age.

Well, we saw what happened at SoA when there were no adults on the bus.  
BITD we had parent-chaperones.   Not the worst idea ever.     

[JimF-LowBari]

29 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

Well, we saw what happened at SoA when there were no adults on the bus.  
BITD we had parent-chaperones.   Not the worst idea ever.     

Non-members in front seats and members in the rest. With no mixing in adjoining seats. 🤷🏻

[scheherazadesghost]

Require a higher standard of training, compliance, and reporting protocol for any non-member traveling in member busses.

[denverjohn]

53 minutes ago, MGCpimpOtimp said:

Mixing members with Adult staff/volunteers is an absolute non-starter this day and age.

There is an adult bus driver. Are there zero adult monitors/chaperones on corps buses these days?

[IllianaLancerContra]

13 minutes ago, denverjohn said:

There is an adult bus driver. Are there zero adult monitors/chaperones on corps buses these days?

IDK about adult monitors, but driver needs to concentrate on driving, not chaperoning.

Edited May 17, 2023 by IllianaLancerContra

[denverjohn]

2 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

IDK about adult monitors, but driver needs to concentrate on driving, not chaperoning.

I was responding to a poster who was inferring that NO staff should be on a bus because that would be "mixing of staff and members". I was pointing out that ADULTS need to be on the bus with corps members. Our corps director and other staff frequently occupied the front several seats of the bus guaranteeing an adult administrative presence. Those adults are often teaching staff. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by denverjohn
typo

[IllianaLancerContra]

27 minutes ago, denverjohn said:

I was responding to a poster who was inferring that NO staff should be on a bus because that would be "mixing of staff and members". I was pointing out that ADULTS need to be on the bus with corps members. Our corps director and other staff frequently occupied the front several seats of the bus guaranteeing an adult administrative presence. Those adults are often teaching staff. 

I agree adults are needed - the way I (mis)read your post was that driver could do both driving and overseeing.   And I also agree with Ms S-Ghost that adult chaperones should be vetted, just like everyone else who comes in contact with members.