scheherazadesghost Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 17 minutes ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Therein lies a central problem- until someone does something inappropriate, they aren’t on any ‘do not hire’ list. Everyone on DCP aid one swing away from being an axe-murderer. But we allow all of them access to axes. Blacklists violate confidentiality, at least formalized ones do. While I'm all for it, I don't think it'll fly in today's litigious society. Train the members, and hell, even demand compliance of them so they can at least confirm that they know their rights and defend themselves in worst case scenarios. Very worst case scenario, they are still violated, but know it was wrong and not their fault. I didn't get that until 15 years after the fact after extensive soul searching. Once you know what to look for and how to handle a report, the culture can begin to safeguard itself a little better. I genuinely hope that SafeSport was the start of this, but it's simply not enough. The easiest rule to put in place is no 1-on-1 meetings between staff and members (or even member-to-member if there is a power differential.) Ever. Period. If you see this happening, say something or interrupt it. Where we are mostly right now is, huh? what problem? oh snap, my fellow member/alum was violated? that really sucks... moving on... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hirsbrunner Posted May 18, 2023 Share Posted May 18, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, craiga said: I think some people on dcp are incredibly out of touch with the activity. There haven't been "adult chaperones" on busses literally since the days of mom and pop drum corps when Uncle Frank would drive the 30 year old retired Greyhound coach. Having said that, I have been told that Boston plans on not marching the full 165 in order to accommodate a couple "admin" people on each bus. While not acting as actual chaperones, they are nevertheless legal adults who are in constant touch with the corps leadership and are part of the reporting structure. I believe they did this last year as well and is part of their best practices mindset. The fact that their director is a lawyer and a former Massachusetts prosecutor may have something to do with this. I do not know if other corps are following suit, but this sounds reasonable to me. There were admin (not necessarily chaperones but they basically functioned as that) on each bus when I marched in early-mid 2010s. At least with my corps. Edited May 18, 2023 by Hirsbrunner 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 16 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: Again, the SoA debacle may not have occurred had there been adult oversight on the bus. Are you suggesting it is better to have a bunch on 16-21 year olds left to themselves for extended periods? That has just as much potential for bad stuff to happen. I think Ms S-Ghost’s suggestion of properly vetted staff (or admin as mentioned in the BAC comment) on the busses keeping an eye on things is a good idea. sadly there is no win win situation. all it takes is a kid ###### at an adult and boom accusations fly. or an adult thats had the ##### of a certain kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 14 hours ago, craiga said: All staff members, including food and uniform volunteers submit full applications now and undergo complete background checks. You can't say in one breath there should be adult, non-marching members on the busses and then say one might turn out to be a psychopath. Seriously. people with background checks that are clean have committed acts that created serious issues. a background check isn't a cure all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 12 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said: Blacklists violate confidentiality, at least formalized ones do. While I'm all for it, I don't think it'll fly in today's litigious society. Train the members, and hell, even demand compliance of them so they can at least confirm that they know their rights and defend themselves in worst case scenarios. Very worst case scenario, they are still violated, but know it was wrong and not their fault. I didn't get that until 15 years after the fact after extensive soul searching. Once you know what to look for and how to handle a report, the culture can begin to safeguard itself a little better. I genuinely hope that SafeSport was the start of this, but it's simply not enough. The easiest rule to put in place is no 1-on-1 meetings between staff and members (or even member-to-member if there is a power differential.) Ever. Period. If you see this happening, say something or interrupt it. Where we are mostly right now is, huh? what problem? oh snap, my fellow member/alum was violated? that really sucks... moving on... oh? if i commit mortgage fraud as an originator, i'm on multiple lists and can't originate pretty much any kind of mortgage in existence as we know it. thats a blacklist. there's other lists out there too if someone is caught, boom, they're on a list. so why can't DCI have a do not hire list? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGCpimpOtimp Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 45 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: oh? if i commit mortgage fraud as an originator, i'm on multiple lists and can't originate pretty much any kind of mortgage in existence as we know it. thats a blacklist. there's other lists out there too if someone is caught, boom, they're on a list. so why can't DCI have a do not hire list? Because mortgage fraud is a crime, and thus is public record. Employee disciplinary actions that don't rise to legal matters are not. A blacklist of instructors would put corps a huge legal risk for defamation/libel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 27 minutes ago, Jeff Ream said: oh? if i commit mortgage fraud as an originator, i'm on multiple lists and can't originate pretty much any kind of mortgage in existence as we know it. thats a blacklist. there's other lists out there too if someone is caught, boom, they're on a list. so why can't DCI have a do not hire list? Everything I'm reading says blacklisting is illegal in most states. Am I looking at misinformation? Heck, MAASIN can't even go on record affirming that VMAPA corroborated my report. So now, apparently I'm without validation again. (More importantly, how the heck is a younger survivor supposed to navigate such a mess when I'm stumped and my profesional career focused on safeguarding?) I've said it before. This industry seems to have been historically more consistent about blacklisting young members that made age-appropriate mistakes than staff/leadership who violate members. That necessitated leadership sharing young people's confidential info without consent. I'd love to see the same rigor applied to violators. But you'll forgive me, I hope, if I'm lacking faith in the industry’s capacity to do so. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mello Dude Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 20 hours ago, scheherazadesghost said: Blacklists violate confidentiality, at least formalized ones do. While I'm all for it, I don't think it'll fly in today's litigious society. Train the members, and hell, even demand compliance of them so they can at least confirm that they know their rights and defend themselves in worst case scenarios. Very worst case scenario, they are still violated, but know it was wrong and not their fault. I didn't get that until 15 years after the fact after extensive soul searching. Once you know what to look for and how to handle a report, the culture can begin to safeguard itself a little better. I genuinely hope that SafeSport was the start of this, but it's simply not enough. The easiest rule to put in place is no 1-on-1 meetings between staff and members (or even member-to-member if there is a power differential.) Ever. Period. If you see this happening, say something or interrupt it. Where we are mostly right now is, huh? what problem? oh snap, my fellow member/alum was violated? that really sucks... moving on... Not quite sure about that. Sex offender lists are readily available. I'm fairly certain in some states the offender is required to notify the community they live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: people with background checks that are clean have committed acts that created serious issues. a background check isn't a cure all You have to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted May 19, 2023 Share Posted May 19, 2023 8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said: oh? if i commit mortgage fraud as an originator, i'm on multiple lists and can't originate pretty much any kind of mortgage in existence as we know it. thats a blacklist. there's other lists out there too if someone is caught, boom, they're on a list. so why can't DCI have a do not hire list? 1. Was the mortgage blacklist something that the industry started because it thought it was a good idea, or did some shenanigans occur & the industry put the list in place as a result? 2. Are there laws or banking regulations that legally underpin the list? 3. What is the process for getting someone added to the list? Does the big boss banker pick up their red phone & say ‘add Ream to the list’? Or is there a process where you can provide a defense against being listed? These are all considerations that Drum Corps will need to address before it creates the blacklist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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