greg_orangecounty Posted May 27, 2023 Share Posted May 27, 2023 I'm in Mexico for a wedding, and met a prominent former band director and current band judge in So Cal. He said SCV is in debt over a million dollars and looking for a sponsor but no luck yet. Take if for what it's worth. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllianaLancerContra Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 13 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said: I'm in Mexico for a wedding, and met a prominent former band director and current band judge in So Cal. He said SCV is in debt over a million dollars and looking for a sponsor but no luck yet. Take if for what it's worth. I have no idea what to believe anymore considering SCV status. I know Send in the Clowns has been their song for decades, but I didn’t know it was also their management philosophy. 4 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 15 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said: I'm in Mexico for a wedding, and met a prominent former band director and current band judge in So Cal. He said SCV is in debt over a million dollars and looking for a sponsor but no luck yet. Take if for what it's worth. That would be zero. Judges are, by my experience, some of the least knowledgeable people in the activity when it comes to how the sausage is actually made. They're mostly glorified fans with clipboards. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_orangecounty Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Slingerland said: That would be zero. Judges are, by my experience, some of the least knowledgeable people in the activity when it comes to how the sausage is actually made. They're mostly glorified fans with clipboards. You have no idea who he is as I didn't list his entire resume. You would if you lived in CA and I mentioned his high school, so your characterization is way-way off. Doubt the information, or me, but not the person that shared it. He's legit. Edited May 28, 2023 by greg_orangecounty . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWhoKnows Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 4 hours ago, Slingerland said: That would be zero. Judges are, by my experience, some of the least knowledgeable people in the activity when it comes to how the sausage is actually made. They're mostly glorified fans with clipboards. Yeah I’m going to push back on this. They are NOT glorified fans with clipboards. Those that judge have been involved in the activity for decades. They came up through drum corps, they taught drum corps, they taught other performing ensembles. They aren’t just random people. They may not know all the current “gossip” when it comes to corps, but they certainly know “how the sausage is made”. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scheherazadesghost Posted May 28, 2023 Share Posted May 28, 2023 12 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said: I have no idea what to believe anymore considering SCV status. I know Send in the Clowns has been their song for decades, but I didn’t know it was also their management philosophy. According to Sondheim: "It's a theater reference meaning "if the show isn't going well, let's send in the clowns"; in other words, "let's do the jokes." I always want to know, when I'm writing a song, what the end is going to be, so "Send in the Clowns" didn't settle in until I got the notion, "Don't bother, they're here", which means that "We are the fools." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudleytheWest Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 On 5/17/2023 at 5:47 AM, craiga said: I think it has been well established that props, electronics or raised maximum members had nothing to do with Vanguard's fate, especially given the fact that they had well over 300 members on the field last summer with TWO touring drum corps. I've never said any of that was "the" cause of the Vanguard's demise. Vanguard's demise was due to simple finance - spending more than you earn. However, all of those things lead to a corps having to spend an insane amount of money to win. It's been this way for decades. It takes a lot to win, and one thing it takes a lot of is money and spending money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudleytheWest Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 On 5/17/2023 at 10:59 AM, IllianaLancerContra said: There are others on tour w/ the Corps that could fill the seats - food personnel, health personnel, instructors. Fill the bus seats and you might be able to remove a vehicle from the convoy. And that would save $. Yes, the activity isn't growing. And extending the membership just means more talented prospects flood to the top. That was not a wise move. It's just another example DCI supporting things that help keep the top corps in the top and make it harder for lower tier corps to move up. It just baffles me that lower tier corps vote against their own interests repeatedly. Granted I am assuming they have votes and power, I really don't know. So please correct/educate me here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudleytheWest Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 9 hours ago, TheOneWhoKnows said: Yeah I’m going to push back on this. They are NOT glorified fans with clipboards. Those that judge have been involved in the activity for decades. They came up through drum corps, they taught drum corps, they taught other performing ensembles. They aren’t just random people. They may not know all the current “gossip” when it comes to corps, but they certainly know “how the sausage is made”. Exactly, and they know people in the know. Honestly, I can't believe people think Vanguard is going to be back. They are not. Even if they field a corps next year, they are not going to field a contender. Who in their right mind would march there after the way they handled 2023? I love Vanguard. They have been my favorite corps since I first saw them in '83 and this is the most devastating thing, to me, to happen in the history of this activity (again, I said to me), but I'm not kidding myself that they are miraculously going to be back. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DudleytheWest Posted May 29, 2023 Share Posted May 29, 2023 (edited) On 5/17/2023 at 7:25 AM, LabMaster said: I hope that comments on how dumb DCI is for what has been happening through the years is viewed with the understanding that there is a distinction for the assigning of the “dumb” characterization should placed on either DCI the org or DCI the corps. Both can certainly be guilty of “dumb” by not looking at the immediate and long term impact of decisions or chosen direction. DCI the corps are mostly responsible imo as they choose what benefits the few with little regard for those who are not in a position to join in the arms race, such as membership size, touring schedule and costs, instrumentation, electronics, so on and so forth. Some have lead the way and been successful and aren’t concerned about the have nots. Others have found a way, over a long time. Others just can’t seem to get it together. DCI corps still control it. DVI org does not. The corps chose to go to 165 members. And it doesn’t mean you must. Can you afford it? Corps chose giant FE’s, (4) 18 wheelers, huge massive props, expensive staff salaries. The key word is “chose”. Could DCI the org stopped them? Maybe, but likely not. It’s not their role and DCI the corps, wouldn’t allow it. My point is, when criticizing or blaming DCI for all the activities ills (and there are plenty), be sure which DCI is responsible for what is being pointed out. Now back to regular programming of the failings of SCV. Great post. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. For me, the 165 is less about finances than hurting the little guy. Let's be honest here - the corps at the top want to stay at the top. It's ALWAYS been that way. What's the best way to do that? Make sure no one comes up from the ranks and topples you. How do you do that? You push for policies that benefit you and hurt the little guy. It's the same across life. Those that win, win at the expense of those that lose. Most at the top (in all facets of life) care only for themselves and have little concern for those at the bottom. It's like the first world countries - they remain first world countries because they work to ensure the third world countries stay third world. Business is like that, too. DCI is no different. Look at it this way (and I know it's not happening exactly like this). We'll start with 2019 finishes and adding 15 members. BD takes 15 members from Bluecoats Bluecoats take 30 members from Vanguard Vanguard takes 45 members from Crown Crown takes 60 members from Cavies Cavies take 75 members from Boston You get the picture. Like I said, it's not going to work exactly like this, but this move definitely hurts the lower tier corps and makes it harder for them to get quality talent, because there's a lot more of that quality talent shifting upwards. The activity as a whole should have, and should, care for the activity as a whole, because when you don't there will come a point where there is nothing left, or very little left. It's in the interest of the top corps to care for the overall health, fair competition, and growth of DCI even if it's at their expense, even if they don't win. But, it's never been that way, and it will never be that way. Actually, it kind of was that way once - through Star of Indiana. Star did a lot to help other corps during their time at DCI, which is why the treatment they received by DCI, the judging community and the fans was so outrageous. At the time, I was ###### at Star for leaving and thought it was a mistake. Now, I applaud it and I think it was the smartest thing they did. DCI isn't fair, not in how it operates or how it's judged. Edited May 29, 2023 by DudleytheWest 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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