BOA Bans Ensemble Amplification. Is DCI next?

[Bob984]

On 5/11/2023 at 1:31 PM, gbass598 said:

So if you want to use a small snippet that calls for a timpani sound but you don't want to haul timpani out on the field for only 2-3 notes you won't be able to do it? Transporting timpani isn't smart logistically for a lot of band programs.

 

Also, electronic drum sounds if you want an "80's" type sound or feel?

 

this proposal is very vague. I think I understand intent but wording is very grey.

the rule, as I read it, doesn't prohibit any sounds......just that all is to be played live and not to be a pre-recorded part...you can easily play timpani parts from a synth..........ditto with electronic drum sounds......and a pad controller could be used.......what they don't want is the parts themselves to be actually pre-recorded.............

they want all to be evaluated on LIVE performance....not pre-recorded......and also that in full ensemble sections, that nobody's playing is masked by just a handful of select miked players..........makes sense.............

[gbass598]

8 hours ago, Jeff Ream said:

corrected for you

The Class A champion last year would beg to differ. A and AA bands all have virtually no shot at making Finals. Tarpon Springs is the exception but there are plenty of A and AA bands I would consider successful.

[ZTWright]

4 hours ago, gbass598 said:

The Class A champion last year would beg to differ. A and AA bands all have virtually no shot at making Finals. Tarpon Springs is the exception but there are plenty of A and AA bands I would consider successful.

Tarpon isn't the only exception. Marian Catholic for how long before they dropped out?

[gbass598]

2 hours ago, ZTWright said:

Tarpon isn't the only exception. Marian Catholic for how long before they dropped out?

True but not any longer.They are hanging on by a thread now. I've heard school enrollment is down and Greg Bimm just retired. It woud take another special effort for a school of a class AA size to be able to do what they do. Tarpon Springs is already special since they are the arts magnet school for PInellas County. Not exactly a traditional high school.

[ZTWright]

4 hours ago, gbass598 said:

True but not any longer.They are hanging on by a thread now. I've heard school enrollment is down and Greg Bimm just retired. It woud take another special effort for a school of a class AA size to be able to do what they do. Tarpon Springs is already special since they are the arts magnet school for PInellas County. Not exactly a traditional high school.

That's why I said before they dropped out. I was in one of those bands that plotted their demise as a teenager, but now as an adult I hate to see any program falter the way they have. I thought for sure North Hardin was on their way to becoming the next great 2A band, but with Brian Froedge retiring, it's certainly hit them pretty hard, I don't see that happening anymore. 

[gbass598]

3 hours ago, ZTWright said:

That's why I said before they dropped out. I was in one of those bands that plotted their demise as a teenager, but now as an adult I hate to see any program falter the way they have. I thought for sure North Hardin was on their way to becoming the next great 2A band, but with Brian Froedge retiring, it's certainly hit them pretty hard, I don't see that happening anymore. 

Complete side conversation but it is interesting to see what programs came out of Covid stronger and those that suffered because of it. Wether it be district policies changing, directors changing, or things like Covid I think we've all seen some great programs come and go. Certainly the ones who remain are certainly playing the game when it comes to electronics. These groups can be pushing the envelope in new and unique ways or adapting just so they can hang on for dear life to stay relevant.

[Jeff Ream]

15 hours ago, gbass598 said:

The Class A champion last year would beg to differ. A and AA bands all have virtually no shot at making Finals. Tarpon Springs is the exception but there are plenty of A and AA bands I would consider successful.

and like Open Class in DCI, all that gets attention is.....

[BigW]

On 5/11/2023 at 2:19 PM, gbass598 said:

 

I think this is getting into the weeds a bit here.

 

I don't see anyone limiting instrumentation, only enhancing what they have with available tools.

Is amplifying a few select members of the wind section to make you sound better shady? You bet.

Is it more or less shady than cutting the 15 clarinets out of your 45 member woodwind section or 6 mellophones from a 20 member mello section from a feature because they can't play it very well? I don't think so but nobody is policing that.

As far as "adapting" that is a broad term on how you adapt. The way some people adapt is different than how others adapt. Some people accept and are able to only do what you have available to you. Others find new and different ways to adapt. That is how the front ensemble and electronics all came into use. It was adapting and evolving with the times and available tools/technology.

I find this interesting and a great question/comment.

 

When I arranged or reworked things, sometimes we had performers who couldn't hack the feature, but I wrote something they could perform within that feature that fit to keep them involved and not feeling left out. Some were special needs kids. I wanted to make sure the panel heard and saw that everyone was contributing what they could, and that we weren't cutting anyone.

 

It could be thought of as shady, sure, in that there's a bit of a musical illusion created if one wishes to see it in that way. I and the rest of the staff saw it as better to involve everyone as best as they could be involved, and also to respect the performers.

 

In the 30 or less musician class in the one regional circuit, the winner miked the 15 or so winds they had. That being said, garbage into the mike, garbage out the speaker. There was no garbage. They also rolled the dice and got the balance and sound right at the championship venue. Another competitor had equipment failure, which cost them several places in overtime penalties while the rectified the issues. There's still a bit of a gamble.

 

There, we're talking a very small band, not a cast of thousands BoA juggernaut. From observation, I'm not seeing any of those top-end BoA units suffering for a loss of bodies on any particular instrument. The programs appear to have and get what they need and the overall instrumental music program from entry level on up is obviously built to provide enough well-trained bodies on the various instruments.

 

Can electronic timbres enhance, if used wisely, sure!

The thing is, I've studied Carmel's winning performance this year. It's not showing any of the negative excesses described in some of the posts. It's quite sublime. It's caused a lot of grousing from some circles because it's very meat and potatoes and not over baked and over thought and performed very precisely and elegantly.

 

If they are using the electronics to stiffen weak sections, it's extremely subtle. A huge if there...

[drumcat]

On 5/13/2023 at 4:01 PM, Jeff Ream said:

all great points. but how do you enforce and actually prove the cheating?

First, shout to Fred and 1whoknows, and for anyone who read that thing. Sorry it was not proofread, so it may have been rough.

To answer your question Jeff, it's critical to point out what you're enforcing. I didn't want to get heavily into the rules because the permutations can get a bit ugly. Thus, let's keep them a bit generic:

The main cheat: hiding

What BOA is calling out is that musicians on the field are being "hidden" by the playing of others, mimicking a better result to the box. I'm sure this handcuffs judges bound to the press box. It's why DCI has had field-level judging for so long -- you can't get away with it.

That said, the way you can eliminate this cheating *easily* is by eliminating all wireless microphones. You can be a bit more specific, but you can begin to impinge on creativity. If I recall, the pit box is 15ft for BOA. So you can set a rule that says all reinforcement must be done within the Pit Box or the 15ft on the field. Or you can enforce it by saying that all members that are not in the Pit may not wear any electronics or have anything other than an analog instrument on the field. To me, the subtleties are too much. Despite the problems with some creativity, I'd draw that line and be wired-only. It also tends to be higher quality, no latency, and little chance of frequency interference. Most of those issues are negligible anymore, but you can't march with a wired mic. That problem gets solved.

Other cheats:

Frequency or digital signal processing

This one's a bit more difficult. As you'll recall it's a rarity - it happened with BD, and they weren't called out for it, but I cannot think of any time where this has been an issue and a broken rule. In DCI, it would be permitted now from what I understand. If you were working to prevent this sort of thing, you can't outside of saying "don't".

"Reinforcement of any instrument or voice is not allowed to alter the analog playing properties upon its amplification. An exception is allowed for equalisation in order to preserve the effectiveness of reinforcing the original sound."

If this is done in conjunction with the mics-in-box and wired-only mics, the only consideration you might see pushed is base or chipmunk stuff just as BD did with human voice. I wouldn't expect a repeat of that.

The tricky part - bass guitars

We can't go without calling out Thundergoo. While this is obviously a LONG-running discussion, thunder goo doesn't exactly fall under what I'd call "cheating". 50 clarinets and 1 bass guitar, and you ask "how loud should it be?" That is essentially "how long is a piece of string?" It really would need to be a judged decision. Thunder goo is not 51 clarinets with one loud and 50 quiet; they are different instruments. The fact that an electric guitar (or synth, or sample) gets played isn't necessarily right or wrong. If an ensemble is making up for a lack of low brass, is it within their purview to do this? In BOA, I'd be really careful because of the nature of high schools, etc. In DCI WC, you have the brass, so it becomes a creative decision. If the sampling rules apply from the other post, I would not allow sampling of instruments that are already being fielded.

"All digitally sampled instruments to be used must not be the same or a similar nature to those on the field, nor those traditionally found on a marching band field. For example, a tuba sampler should never be used."

If implemented, it's up to a judge to define whether an electric guitar (that is amplified) is balanced between the ensemble.

Also, going back to the traditional technique note on the sampler, you would be prohibited from using, let's say a double-bass sampler with a piano-layout keyboard. Thus, you're more pushed towards the traditional electric bass being played by a student.

"Digitally sampled instruments should be implemented by a student using an appropriate technique. Thus a percussive sample should be played with a velocity-sensitive pad, a piano sample via a velocity-sensitive keyboard, and so forth. When a digitally sampled instrument is provided for a student, the virtuosity of the student should be maintained through a similar triggering technique."

Then you might say "keytar". If it's a keytar, or a Theramin, or whatever the instrument actually is, play it as it is, physically. The *sample* should be appropriate. What's appropriate for something like a keytar? It's still intended to be an electric guitar sound. The student could play a keytar with that sample set using a velocity-sensitive hardware unit, plugged in to the appropriate amplifier, and judged on its ensemble balance.

But to wrap this, cheating as it's being called out is on the *field*. Eliminating the ability to overbalance through wireless microphones attached to better students is easily stopped by disallowing reinforcement of any traditionally-marched instruments through wireless means.

[Lead]

On 5/13/2023 at 12:02 AM, Jeff Ream said:

"remember that part you USED to play here?"

The worst words to hear during rehearsal...