BOA Bans Ensemble Amplification. Is DCI next?

[KVG_DC]

Academy should do a light hearted Monty Python show and use these moves.

[ZTWright]

2 hours ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

I'm not suggesting banning technology. I'm suggesting the banning of recorded sounds, electronic sounds that replace otherwise playable acoustic instruments. 

You can say you promise it won't replace trumpets all you want. Until someone goes and does it. It's already being done in bands across the country. Just because it hasn't made the main stage yet doesn't mean it won't. And it will. There will come a day someone goes for it and tries it. And I believe that to be a disservice to the activity. 

I'm with you for larger ensembles, but again, as I stated prior, smaller ensembles use sound patches for acoustic instruments to allow for their sound to have a bottom to it. Listening to a 9 piece wind band on the field without any bass other than a baritone or trombone isn't as nice as with a tuba. You can't ban it across the board except for those smaller ensembles, which is why BOA is only suggesting it because they know that a lot of their smaller bands wouldn't be competing in their circuit anymore.

2 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

I have seen marching bands go without trumpets (or name any other section), and mimic or replace their sounds via pit-based electronics.  But I did not interview every such band to ascertain their motivation/reasoning for doing so.

Good for you.  I guess your career has permitted you to focus on your own successful ensembles, and not notice what is going on around us.

If this was "Technology of America", then fine.  But I could have sworn they called it "Bands of America".

Please direct me to a video, and I will gladly admit defeat. Was this band over 20 members and capable of having said instrument or were they smaller and less likely to have students who decided to pick up the trumpet as their instrument of choice? We just don't know. In those instances, it's absolutely going to happen that the trumpets will be replaced with a synth. But any educator with a good head on their shoulders would never tell their Trumpet section to stay home or pick a different instrument because they're going full synth with them.

3 hours ago, jjeffeory said:

I've seen small bands use a synth to bolster the entire ensemble's sound. So, bass, low, mid voices, and some high voices. I wouldn't call the sounds trumpet, tuba, trombone, or whatever though...

For marching band, I'm more forgiving. Those are scholastic programs. Membership is limited to whomever lives in an area.

With drumcorps, THAT started off being more restrictive in instrumentation, and part of the charm is keeping the instrumentation different than other types of marching ensembles...

So have I. As I believe I mentioned the current Class A national champion. It also happens in DCI. Can we ban those without banning electronics entirely? No. 

Instrumentation is still different than other types of marching ensembles. Just because we now have Trombones and string instruments doesn't mean that they're going to add in woodwinds. I would hope that they would know better than to do that, or at least open a different class for that sort of ensemble.

4 hours ago, IllianaLancerContra said:

It is called a WGI color guard.  The music is performed elsewhere, recorded, and electronically reproduced while the color guard members perform. 

I really think one one season soon, probably in an Open class corps (because they sometimes struggle for members) we will see someone try an all musicians in pit, big guard on field approach.   May work, may not.  Just like SCV wasn't very successful in 1980 (7th, lowest for them since DCI's beginning in 1972) with asymmetrical drill - but it served as a starting point for the future.  

1. I know what WGI is.

2. WGI has been without musicians in their guards since 1977. So I guess we can blame that generation for it with that kind of mindset.

It might happen, it might not. I doubt that any of your local high schools will go that route though. BOA seems to be leading the charge these days instead of DCI. Yes, high schools play music that corps have done, but we see more corps replicating the top BOA bands these days than vice versa. 

4 hours ago, Lance said:

i never said or implied that there would be no trumpets in dci.  

tuba sections have already been reduced over the past decade because they've been replaced by the very thunderous goo you mentioned and converted to guard/pit spots. 

sheets are objectively visual heavy so i see reducing acoustic sound production, replacing it with amping smaller sections, and converting those spots to visual/percussion continuing, especially with the anything goes mindset.  talk to me in 5 years.  i'll be happy to be wrong.

pretty sure i'm not.  

Alexa, remind me in 5 years to talk to Lance.

4 hours ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

I've seen a lot of percussion sounds be used by electronics. Replacing timpani or chimes. I understand in the grand scale of things that's minor, but it's a step in a direction that I don't think is good in my opinion. Just because you don't have the timpani or you don't want to haul it around doesn't mean you can replace it with an electronic. As a percussionist, you're cheating out on the proper technique and tuning it takes to play the timpani. I don't necessarily believe in taking an easy route for the sake of having it to have it. I would rather an arranger and the group adapt without the timpani.

Percussion sounds have been replicated by electronics since the early/mid 2000s. This is nothing new. 

[TheOneWhoKnows]

1 minute ago, ZTWright said:

I'm with you for larger ensembles, but again, as I stated prior, smaller ensembles use sound patches for acoustic instruments to allow for their sound to have a bottom to it. Listening to a 9 piece wind band on the field without any bass other than a baritone or trombone isn't as nice as with a tuba. You can't ban it across the board except for those smaller ensembles, which is why BOA is only suggesting it because they know that a lot of their smaller bands wouldn't be competing in their circuit anymore.

 

Percussion sounds have been replicated by electronics since the early/mid 2000s. This is nothing new. 

There is a small band in my area that I adjudicate that consistently has 15 or less members. Rarely has more than a trombone for low end and they sound fantastic. They are literally textbook small band and they write their shows in a way that work for them. I personally so no justification in the excuse of small numbers. 

 

I'm aware percussion sounds have been used for a long time. I'm stating I don't agree with it. And let me stress again, I'm not against support, I'm against replacement. 

[greg_orangecounty]

High school marching bands used to want to emulate Drum Corps, not the other way around. 

But we live in upside-down times, so.......

[MikeD]

8 hours ago, gbass598 said:

• Amplifying individuals through a soundboard during tutti sections leads to an
  intentional misrepresentation of what is being performed by the total ensemble. This
  misrepresentation of acoustic quality by enhancing a few individuals is unacceptable.

This is, IMO, ridiculous. Back in 2002 our town went from one HS to two. Our already small marching band ended up having a total of around 32 people, with 6 being guard and 6 percussion, plus a DM. For our few winds, we ended up putting mics on every wind instrument except for the two first trumpets and 4 piccs. We micced the one 2nd trumpet, the clarinets, alto saxes, tenor sax, baritone horn and our tuba. The band sounded great given it small size. 

We actually had the 6 percussion play both pit and battery during the show. The six started all in the pit and as the show progressed the players ended up moving to battery, and back to the pit near the end.

Our goal was to make the small band sound as good as possible at both football games and competitions in order to provide the students with the best experience possible. IMO there should not be any such rule telling the staff what they should or should not do to maximize that experience.

[gbass598]

6 hours ago, Lance said:

both the pitch clock and putting runners on base in extras were to address the length of games which greatly impacts new viewership.  the pitch clock does a lot more to shorten games and enable hurrying up and getting to a bar. i think most people are onboard with the pitch clock, but the 2b runner in extras is a bit more controversial, but has plenty of proponents in the game and in fandom.  implying it was enacted out of laziness?  come on lol. 

banning the shift also has plenty of proponents, many of which are rational humans. but yeah, it's pretty controversial.  i like it because the shifting got so absurd it didn't even look like baseball anymore.  it also rewards more skilled batters.  reducing it to a problem that doesn't exist is pretty myopic, imo. 

there is nuance to any discussion about these kinds of rules, just like there is in marching band.  maybe try to explore it a little?  you have people like you (as far as I can tell) and MikeD who are literally "anything goes", but i'm betting that even you advocate drawing some lines.  

 

Side topic but what is advancing the game about a bunch of pull hitters who do nothing but try to hit the hardest home run they can and refuse to adapt to the way a team defends them.

That is why the rule is dumb. People can agree or disagree but it was a rule put in place because hitters refused to adapt and just whined about it. The same type of thing could be done in the music world with certain competitive rules.

Of course I advocate for rules but if you have a rule, you'd better define a way to quantify and enforce it. We are getting into rules about how to enforce electronics that will be on par with defining how vague a catch or fumble is in the NFL.

[gbass598]

5 hours ago, denverjohn said:

Enslaved Chinese Uighurs digging for cobalt and lithium will get right on those batteries.

In the words of Judge Smails, "The world needs ditch diggers too."

[gbass598]

5 hours ago, cixelsyd said:

 

If this was "Technology of America", then fine.  But I could have sworn they called it "Bands of America".

Or they call the organization Music for All. Which sounds pretty inclusive to me.

[Jeff Ream]

10 hours ago, TheOneWhoKnows said:

https://marching.musicforall.org/philosophy-amplification-enhancement/?fbclid=IwAR2xZyZ2XBcdbJpLNtbCOMXg4pJTmVtQDkoRHnjv1BO6XO-1LHVqTQ7lelc

 

BOA puts in guidance regarding certain areas of amplification during ensemble moments. Interesting to see. 

note it says guidelines, not actual rules with penalties for non compliance.

[Jeff Ream]

10 hours ago, Lead said:

But notice that it is not "banned" (yet). This doc reads that it is a "suggested self-policing guideline." 

It needs to be banned.

but how to enforce? 

having run watches for indoor percussion with the one sound one keystroke rule, unless you're right on top of the synth/laptop players, you truly have no way to see what is and isn't happening. and in order to see those performers, you literally have to be on the floor....a hazard to the judge and the performers.

 

same thing in band. you can't expect judges in the box to try and police this...thats not their job. nor should it be. there was a famously rumored and pretty confirmed story about a Jabba sound effect in DCI 15 years ago before it was legal and a corps running sound from the box before it became legal. and both only came to light because other groups found out and brought it up.

 

so now you'll have the battle of "this group did, that group did"....and i expect little change.

 

not that i like the super re-enforced sound. i still say to this day parts of Crown 19 were so over enhanced i was painful an when it was just the brass, the voulme was noticably lower.and they were rewarded for it too.