Tim K Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Old Corps Guy said: OK, I will go there. Everyone is avoiding the elephant in the room with this conversation. While the Mandarins did show significant improvement over the past couple years, it is becoming clear they are the biggest beneficiary of the SCV issue. That being said, "if" SCV comes back next year, will there be a reduction of high-end students and staff for Mandarins next year? I believe that is a possibility if SCV returns. Boston has shown consistent improvement since the staff changes a few years ago with a clear sight at hitting gold soon. With that said, I see BAC getting there before Mandarins. In the past you began to hear rumblings about the next season at Atlanta, probably based on discussions at San Antonio. By Allentown there were credible predictions and not so credible rumors. By Indy it was all but public knowledge but nothing can be said until after Labor Day because, no names or corps mentioned, a certain former director of an East Coast corps was angry certain staff members found a home further East and the corps announced it the Monday after finals. I think that could be when we hear specifics about whether SCV will return come San Antonio or Atlanta. Personally thinking a SCV return will not happen. I think there are just too many problems to be solved, not to mention the revenue needed. Staff members in many cases have found a new home. If it happens, great, but I don’t think they’ll be a top contender right away. Finalist perhaps. Mandarins seem to be in 5-7 contention. If they should reach as high as 5, that’s where SCV left if in 2022. If that happens, would Mandarins members leave to go to an unknown? I’m thinking no. For one thing, I’ve often heard it’s a very tight knit group. Yes we can say SCV won a title not too long ago, and they have a glorious history, but for people auditioning in 2024, many were in middle school in 2018. It’s ancient history. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted July 13, 2023 Share Posted July 13, 2023 As the author of Competitive Inertia, I feel to compelled to ask: Which of the two corps in question have the most consistent, long-term leadership? That goes for Admin, Designers, Caption heads. Which corps has more people with more experience in all of those areas? I'm not sure of the answers to any of those questions, so if anyone can shed light on them, I'd appreciate it. Whichever corps has the most consistent leadership, and design/caption leadership people with experience in DCI (esp talking to judges), has the upper hand. My instinct is Boston, but I really don't know for sure. (I know Boston has spent a lot on their recent build.) Speaking of Competitive Inertia, remember when the "top 6" included corps like SCV, Madison, Cadets, Phantom and Cavaliers? Now SCV is gone, and the rest are clamoring for that kind of relevancy again. BD is still there, winning 2 out of every 3, lol. Crown and Bluecoats have claimed "top 6" for the last 10 years or so, and Boston is a recent addition. To make it to the Top 3 (to medal), Mandarins will have to beat a vast majority of those aforementioned corps. It's going to take time to build up such inertia, especially since most of them seem to be on good firm footing in their reemergence. Madison and Cavies, wow, appear to be "restarting" every couple years. Will SCV even be relevant if/when they come back? Will Mandarins even make Top 6 this year? I think Crown, BD, Bloo and Boston came through COVID with pretty much everything in tact, or actually improved! Everyone else might be "new since COVID." Thus CI predicts Boston winning before Mandarins medaling. I'd love to be wrong on this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Guns Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 10 hours ago, year1buick said: Mandarins were on the rise before the SCV imploded. I don’t really think one has anything to do with the other. I think for a select few (most certainly not everyone) they either have a problem or refuse to accept the fact that the Mandarins are a legit threat for top 5-6 this year, and not this cute story of some corps that made finals a few times. So they latch onto the narrative that the Vanguard packed up their trucks and headed 120 miles east to Sacramento, and that's why the Mandarins are good now, because Lord knows IT CAN'T BE that the Mandarins have been building this thing from the ground up, and that this surge has been brewing for the last few seasons. Oh no it can't be that...............Well it is just that! Big things are happening in Sacramento, and the Mandarins aren't going away anytime soon. To the select few..........deal with it. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orwellian Wiress Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 I feel like this is the time to bring up something I've wanted to bring up but don't exactly know how to respectfully phrase it. Sinnerman makes me think of a "spiritual successor" to the most modern incarnation of SCV (eg Babylon, Finding Nirvana). Not trying to call it a replacement or anything like that, but it scratches the same itch, so to speak. This isn't a bad thing, just an observation. Again, trying to frame this in a way respectful to SCV fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlanets Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) PC makes the top 12. That is the most likely new scenario to happen this year. Mandarins have to Crack the top 6 before they medal. Boston cracked the top 6 (then fell back) many many years before they medaled. BK and SOA have also been top 6 contenders without getting a medal. Crown and Bluecoats also cracked the top 6 before earning a medal. Cavaliers have been in the top 6 a few times but haven't earned a medal since 2011. With Boston earning 2nd last year it is much more likely that they will earn the championship first Edited July 14, 2023 by ThePlanets 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ediker Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 imho Boston will win before Mandarins medal. Mandarins’ break into top 6 will also be their first medal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacewill Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 12 hours ago, Chief Guns said: I think for a select few (most certainly not everyone) they either have a problem or refuse to accept the fact that the Mandarins are a legit threat for top 5-6 this year, and not this cute story of some corps that made finals a few times. So they latch onto the narrative that the Vanguard packed up their trucks and headed 120 miles east to Sacramento, and that's why the Mandarins are good now, because Lord knows IT CAN'T BE that the Mandarins have been building this thing from the ground up, and that this surge has been brewing for the last few seasons. Oh no it can't be that...............Well it is just that! Big things are happening in Sacramento, and the Mandarins aren't going away anytime soon. To the select few..........deal with it. It's really a tired and easy narrative to just ignore the momentum Mandarins had that was never tied to SCV. I keep telling people that the Mandarins recruit nationally and this year made it clear to everyone who was auditioning that they were shooting for medal worthy talent. They weren't arrogant or rude about it, but they were clear they were ready for that next leap into top 6. They seem to have done it right and with fiscal responsibility so I applaud how they are building!!!! I hope they continue to build the culture the way they have and don't feel they have to overspend to get over the next hill into top 3. Better to take 4 years and be around for 20 then get there in 2 and crumble in 10! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 (edited) It will be much easier to break into the top three (especially with SCV gone), then it will be to overcome the persistent judging bias that has contributed to keeping BD on top for so long. Edited July 14, 2023 by MarimbaManiac 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 25 minutes ago, MarimbaManiac said: It will be much easier to break into the top three (especially with SCV gone), then it will be to overcome the persistent judging bias that has contributed to keeping BD on top for so long. "Persistent judging bias"? Oh, you mean judging to the sheets, and the fact that no one has kept up with BD in terms of design and execution... Got it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted July 14, 2023 Share Posted July 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, jsd said: "Persistent judging bias"? Oh, you mean judging to the sheets, and the fact that no one has kept up with BD in terms of design and execution... Got it. I won't deny that BD usually executes their product the best on a year to year basis. They have a great structural foundation and education pipeline that works for them, but to say they're at the top of design is just silly. It comes down to whether you want to reward a safe product executed marginally better, or a more exciting and risky product that might be marginally dirtier. The persistent bias in judging routinely over-rewards execution over design and effect. I'd say half of their medals over the last 20 years should have gone to another group, several years that were glaringly obvious, but you seem to have a narrative you'd like to run with, so go with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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