Bluecoats, BD, and SA (TW: Sexual Assault)

[saxfreq1128]

2 hours ago, jwillis35 said:

I get what you are saying but sexual assault and dealing with it immediately is much more important than DCI Finals. 

In a regular frame of mind, yes. But obviously, in the aftermath of a traumatic incident, you aren’t in a regular frame of mind. It’s about self-preservation. This allegation is about Finals week. This person could reasonably have been thinking: I don’t want to ruin this season for everyone else, people are counting on me. And if you’re further ashamed, confused, or feel guilty, the last thing you want to do is call the kind of attention to yourself that you get when you accuse someone of sexual assault. If you feel unsafe, the calculation could be between antagonizing the accused and being fearful for the rest of tour, or riding out the rest of finals week because you already know you’ll be home, safe, and fully away from this person in 2 days.

All kinds of things go through peoples’ minds with stuff like this, so we can’t really judge them compared to how we think we’d behave in the best of circumstances. 

[greg_orangecounty]

1 hour ago, Chief Guns said:

I think that's the problem. Schools in Indy are back in session by the time Finals comes thru. So not many schools can host. 

I've heard this about housing before.  Sucks because Finals are now almost a week earlier than they used to be, and there are now only a fraction of the corps.  Wish the young person this happened to healing.  I hate these stories. 

[Jeff Ream]

2 hours ago, greg_orangecounty said:

It's obviously more comfortable, but hotel rooms may not be the best idea when trying to manage over 150 young people.  It won't eliminate the possibility but it has to cut down on the chances of occurrence.  We all survived sleeping on gym floors in sleeping bags - even during Finals. 

the problem finals week is school is in session in Indiana...where DCI is commited until beyond my lifetime by now i am sure

[scheherazadesghost]

3 hours ago, HockeyDad said:

I have read with great interest the things you have shared the past several months about your experiences with SCV and as an advocate for others based on your lived experiences. My lived life experiences probably couldn’t be more different. I’ve had my eyes opened reading the things you’ve been willing to share. So here’s an overdue thank you for that. 

I really struggle with two concepts that can seem to be in opposition. One, to support victim-survivors, to borrow your term. The second, to support due process and the concept of innocence till proven guilty. Can both be done at the same time?  That’s why this is so difficult for me to think about. I’m a father of boys. I shudder to think that they could be wrongly accused and summarily declared guilty. There are some recent examples of this on campuses. 
I have no answers. It’s just so sad. 

Hi HD. Thanks for letting me know of your interest and gratitude. This work is endless, it seems, so I'm glad you find what I've written informative. This incident hit me really hard so I've spent time calculating an adequate response to your comment. I'm still going to screen shot it because I never know when what I'll say will be deleted.

First, supporting victim-survivors (v-s's moving forward.) My approach is firmly grounded in my work in youth safeguarding, which started in earnest in 2016 when, after having worked in the fields of drum corps and dance for over a decade, a minor-age student of mine disclosed abuse to me for the first time in my career. How had I gone 10+ years in youth arts education and not known immediately what to do? How common is this situation among arts education pros? My drum corps had failed me on that front. My undergraduate education had failed me. My graduate education had failed me. All in arts education. Only months before that my professional predecessor had warned me, hey, you may want to do this training on mandated reporting and youth safeguarding. I should've listened. So, after the student disclosed, I researched the heck out of mandated reporting overnight and took immediate steps. While that situation settled among proper authorities and parties, I took the 20+ hr training that had been recommended to me by my predecessor. Until you've really sat down and listened to hours of survivors (verified by court cases) tell stories of how their lives were forever changed by abuse, you can't possibly be prepped for how to support them adequately. Period. That said, there are all kinds of resources out there (even for law enforcement) about "victim-centric" approaches that minimize re-traumatization of v-s's. That's a good place to start. The training I took is called Darkness2Light. I've since studied consent, mental health triage, trauma and the body, and other related fields as a part of my safeguarding work with youth and other vulnerable populations. Our society's capacity for and literacy of such matters is so dangerously low it's no wonder we throw our hands up and say IDK what to do!

Second, innocence until proven guilty. False accusations are a thing, and they're very sad as they turn the accused into the victim. Folks in this thread have spoken to some of their experiences, as well they should. And... I think I've alluded to the fact that rape culture and biases among the investigative processes we use throughout society to navigate accusations like this are profoundly flawed. If we look at the system in drum corps alone as a whole, it's clear that this approach isn't working for v-s's or for fast, effective improvements. Also, as redditors are pointing out, drum corps are private organizations, not courts of law. Additionally, please weigh the realities here, I beg you. Someone who is falsely accused can have similar disruptions to life as a v-s of abuse that has been ignored, not believed, or silenced, BUT they do not also have the same adverse outcomes overall as far as my lived experience tells me. Look at the statistics for adverse outcomes of v-s's. They are incredibly, deathly serious and often firmly psycho-somatic, and not always cognitively manageable for the v-s. They are not limited to character assassination, loss of job-profession, or dismissal from a group. They are often these things AND debilitating mental health or physical health issues that can last a lifetime. So, apologies to those who have been falsely accused, but the outcomes for v-s's are quite unbearable. And I've endured them myself. So I'll almost always side with them first. If it is discovered that I've been misled (by any of the DOZEN+ victims I've spoken to directly or others) I'll be the first to say so, recount my steps, and do what I can to right any wrong I've contributed to.

Can they be done at the same time? Well, certainly not by most the professionals currently employed by the drum corps activity entrusted with safeguarding young people. Can we agree on that? How many more times to v-s's have to step forward publicly risking more than others can know? How many more need to hit up my inbox? How many more grown adults will I need to sit and weep with before we are believed, honored, trusted, and listened to? The current paradigm is set up to protect itself by and large, not the v-s's. Period.

My best immediate solution is for all young people and adults alike to step up their safeguarding game. 'Cause most of the adults in the room aren't qualified to do so and have failed young people for decades. Know the signs of abusers, they're well documented. Know the basic steps that orgs and individuals can take to make those signs easier to spot. Know how and where to report and if it's unclear, don't stop asking until you get an answer that makes you feel safe. Know the resources for survivors. Know how to listen to people in vulnerable positions. Take the Keanu Reeves approach and apply it across your professional/collegiate/recreational relationships or wherever else you see fit. Know and accept what consent actually means.

There are never easy solutions in these situations. You'll note I haven't spoken directly to this situation because even as an advocate and direct supporter of v-s's, my job isn't to tell you where anyone went wrong and what should be done when I don't have the whole story and probably never will. My job is to listen, using my lived experience and professional expertise. My job is to connect the dots between the stories and highlight what I can for others to help drive change. My job is to ask what v-s's what they need and do everything I can to support them. It's my responsibility at this point.

'Cause sadly, I see very few professionals in the activity with the eyes to see what I see and the audacity to say what I say. I had to leave drum corps to get that freedom. Otherwise, they'd still hold the fear of retaliation over me as they continue to do for so many other v-s's.

[Ashontheinternet]

4 hours ago, Mello Dude said:

It's even worse if the justice system is never used.  Just saying...

i wouldn't be so quick to say that. going to the law in the hours immediately following assault has the potential to bring the perpetrator to justice, assuming that there is undeniable evidence. gaining that evidence usually isn't as cut and dry as one would hope. it involves many invasive tests, long questioning, and depending on the depth of investigation, lots of money (that not many people have laying around). and this is all assuming the victim goes to the law immediately. many wont, or cant. many victims and survivors of assault dont recognize they were assaulted for a long, long time. it is a trauma response to deny and block out the idea that such a thing could happen to you. going to the law long after the assault took place means invasive, potentially trauma invoking procedures and tests, and by then, the chances the perp is brought to justice may as well be 0, thanks to the fact that depending on how long ago the event occurred, physical markings, DNA, and memory, may be gone. it is a very complex and disheartening issue. 

[Ashontheinternet]

1 hour ago, scheherazadesghost said:

Hi HD. Thanks for letting me know of your interest and gratitude. This work is endless, it seems, so I'm glad you find what I've written informative. This incident hit me really hard so I've spent time calculating an adequate response to your comment. I'm still going to screen shot it because I never know when what I'll say will be deleted.

First, supporting victim-survivors (v-s's moving forward.) My approach is firmly grounded in my work in youth safeguarding, which started in earnest in 2016 when, after having worked in the fields of drum corps and dance for over a decade, a minor-age student of mine disclosed abuse to me for the first time in my career. How had I gone 10+ years in youth arts education and not known immediately what to do? How common is this situation among arts education pros? My drum corps had failed me on that front. My undergraduate education had failed me. My graduate education had failed me. All in arts education. Only months before that my professional predecessor had warned me, hey, you may want to do this training on mandated reporting and youth safeguarding. I should've listened. So, after the student disclosed, I researched the heck out of mandated reporting overnight and took immediate steps. While that situation settled among proper authorities and parties, I took the 20+ hr training that had been recommended to me by my predecessor. Until you've really sat down and listened to hours of survivors (verified by court cases) tell stories of how their lives were forever changed by abuse, you can't possibly be prepped for how to support them adequately. Period. That said, there are all kinds of resources out there (even for law enforcement) about "victim-centric" approaches that minimize re-traumatization of v-s's. That's a good place to start. The training I took is called Darkness2Light. I've since studied consent, mental health triage, trauma and the body, and other related fields as a part of my safeguarding work with youth and other vulnerable populations. Our society's capacity for and literacy of such matters is so dangerously low it's no wonder we throw our hands up and say IDK what to do!

Second, innocence until proven guilty. False accusations are a thing, and they're very sad as they turn the accused into the victim. Folks in this thread have spoken to some of their experiences, as well they should. And... I think I've alluded to the fact that rape culture and biases among the investigative processes we use throughout society to navigate accusations like this are profoundly flawed. If we look at the system in drum corps alone as a whole, it's clear that this approach isn't working for v-s's or for fast, effective improvements. Also, as redditors are pointing out, drum corps are private organizations, not courts of law. Additionally, please weigh the realities here, I beg you. Someone who is falsely accused can have similar disruptions to life as a v-s of abuse that has been ignored, not believed, or silenced, BUT they do not also have the same adverse outcomes overall as far as my lived experience tells me. Look at the statistics for adverse outcomes of v-s's. They are incredibly, deathly serious and often firmly psycho-somatic, and not always cognitively manageable for the v-s. They are not limited to character assassination, loss of job-profession, or dismissal from a group. They are often these things AND debilitating mental health or physical health issues that can last a lifetime. So, apologies to those who have been falsely accused, but the outcomes for v-s's are quite unbearable. And I've endured them myself. So I'll almost always side with them first. If it is discovered that I've been misled (by any of the DOZEN+ victims I've spoken to directly or others) I'll be the first to say so, recount my steps, and do what I can to right any wrong I've contributed to.

Can they be done at the same time? Well, certainly not by most the professionals currently employed by the drum corps activity entrusted with safeguarding young people. Can we agree on that? How many more times to v-s's have to step forward publicly risking more than others can know? How many more need to hit up my inbox? How many more grown adults will I need to sit and weep with before we are believed, honored, trusted, and listened to? The current paradigm is set up to protect itself by and large, not the v-s's. Period.

My best immediate solution is for all young people and adults alike to step up their safeguarding game. 'Cause most of the adults in the room aren't qualified to do so and have failed young people for decades. Know the signs of abusers, they're well documented. Know the basic steps that orgs and individuals can take to make those signs easier to spot. Know how and where to report and if it's unclear, don't stop asking until you get an answer that makes you feel safe. Know the resources for survivors. Know how to listen to people in vulnerable positions. Take the Keanu Reeves approach and apply it across your professional/collegiate/recreational relationships or wherever else you see fit. Know and accept what consent actually means.

There are never easy solutions in these situations. You'll note I haven't spoken directly to this situation because even as an advocate and direct supporter of v-s's, my job isn't to tell you where anyone went wrong and what should be done when I don't have the whole story and probably never will. My job is to listen, using my lived experience and professional expertise. My job is to connect the dots between the stories and highlight what I can for others to help drive change. My job is to ask what v-s's what they need and do everything I can to support them. It's my responsibility at this point.

'Cause sadly, I see very few professionals in the activity with the eyes to see what I see and the audacity to say what I say. I had to leave drum corps to get that freedom. Otherwise, they'd still hold the fear of retaliation over me as they continue to do for so many other v-s's.

this is really, really well said, and well worth the read. i am extremely happy to know people like you exist around the community and in the world. 

[bluecoats88]

chaperoning members who are over 18 and adults is a little bit tricky as well.

 

[scheherazadesghost]

5 hours ago, Ashontheinternet said:

it is a trauma response to deny and block out the idea that such a thing could happen to you.

For the uninitiated, these are sympathetic nervous system responses to traumatic experiences. There is a vast amount of literature here.

They include fight, flight, freeze, and fawn. They are involuntary. It has been argued that overtraining, as is so common in drum corps, can keep vulnerable people in this state constantly, and that's before an actual trauma happens.

Edited July 18, 2023 by scheherazadesghost
clarity

[jwillis35]

8 hours ago, saxfreq1128 said:

In a regular frame of mind, yes. But obviously, in the aftermath of a traumatic incident, you aren’t in a regular frame of mind. It’s about self-preservation. This allegation is about Finals week. This person could reasonably have been thinking: I don’t want to ruin this season for everyone else, people are counting on me. And if you’re further ashamed, confused, or feel guilty, the last thing you want to do is call the kind of attention to yourself that you get when you accuse someone of sexual assault. If you feel unsafe, the calculation could be between antagonizing the accused and being fearful for the rest of tour, or riding out the rest of finals week because you already know you’ll be home, safe, and fully away from this person in 2 days.

I am totally fine with your argument here. I can only imagine what a person who is assaulted in such a way might feel. No doubt my arguments here are based on what needs to be done from a practical point of view to insure that charges are filed and that an investigation is in place. To me this is the only way to stop this nonsense.

Not wanting to report the incident so the corps can march a full unit come Finals is understandable but not necessarily the right thing to do. Because of this we have two drum corps who may not have known anything about this a year ago and now they are being asked to do something about it 1 year later. So in the end it still harms the corps. It harms their reputation and forces them to act 1 year later on something they may have very little info on. Did the accuser contact the whistle blower hotline? Were the Bluecoats notified? How about BD before the season started? 

Because of the delayed allegations being made we are now asking the Blue Devils to potentially send a member packing for the rest of the tour and Finals. This is difficult. There is a possibility that no formal charges have been filed, no investigation, potentially no interviews and no DNA testing (if needed). So BD is being asked to deal with a situation based on a lot of unknowns. 

[Waxman]

19 minutes ago, jwillis35 said:

I am totally fine with your argument here. I can only imagine what a person who is assaulted in such a way might feel. No doubt my arguments here are based on what needs to be done from a practical point of view to insure that charges are filed and that an investigation is in place. To me this is the only way to stop this nonsense.

Not wanting to report the incident so the corps can march a full unit come Finals is understandable but not necessarily the right thing to do. Because of this we have two drum corps who may not have known anything about this a year ago and now they are being asked to do something about it 1 year later. So in the end it still harms the corps. It harms their reputation and forces them to act 1 year later on something they may have very little info on. Did the accuser contact the whistle blower hotline? Were the Bluecoats notified? How about BD before the season started? 

Because of the delayed allegations being made we are now asking the Blue Devils to potentially send a member packing for the rest of the tour and Finals. This is difficult. There is a possibility that no formal charges have been filed, no investigation, potentially no interviews and no DNA testing (if needed). So BD is being asked to deal with a situation based on a lot of unknowns. 

I actually think BD's path forward here is pretty clear. Regardless of how any investigation will play out, this person can no longer be a contributing member of the corps; think about what this would look like for the remainder of the season. You'd have conflict within the corps between this person and their peers, and you'd have conflict between this person and the staff. You'd have parents calling up BD to ask them why their child is living with a predator. You'd have journalists showing up to rehearsals trying to cover the story, and people filming and harassing this person in the lot. Even if this person were hypothetically completely innocent of any wrongdoing, the remainder of the season would be a terrible experience for them and everyone they're marching with. The best immediate action the corps can take is to send this person home.