Why is Jersey Surf even still a world class corps?

[Tim K]

1 minute ago, Phantom56 said:

Has Jersey Surf indicated if they will be fielding a corps in 2024?

They’re holding a camp November 17-19, so as of right now it sounds like yes. 

[Tim K]

7 hours ago, Gantang said:

In a word...Pioneer.

Other than placing below some competitors, I’m not seeing the connection. As far as management and style of shows, the two are very different and when they competed together since 2009), Surf always placed higher, at least according to DCX.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Tim K

[corps8294]

3 hours ago, Tim K said:

Other than placing below some competitors, I’m not seeing the connection. As far as management and style of shows, the two are very different and when they competed together since 2009), Surf always placed higher, at least according to DCX.

The design teams and instructional staffs at Jersey Surf never had the strict creative limitations that Pioneer had. A lot of people who worked with Pioneer hated it because of "Roman's Rules" regarding show design. 

[Tim K]

2 hours ago, corps8294 said:

The design teams and instructional staffs at Jersey Surf never had the strict creative limitations that Pioneer had. A lot of people who worked with Pioneer hated it because of "Roman's Rules" regarding show design. 

Bob Jacobs and Roman Blenski are two very different people of a different generation with different approaches to drum corps. 

Regarding “Roman’s Rules” for design, The “I root for the underdog” in me appreciated Pioneer’s efforts, but as someone who is about as Irish as you can get, loves Celtic music and popular Irish music, and thinks an Irish themed show could be powerful if done well, I wish that with some of the so called “Irish” themed shows of Pioneer, the design staff broke a few of “Roman’s Rules.”  ☘️ 🙂

[Mello Dude]

16 hours ago, Gantang said:

In a word...Pioneer.

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Mello Dude

[Jurassic Lancer]

1 hour ago, Mello Dude said:

 

Ew

[Gantang]

14 hours ago, Tim K said:

Other than placing below some competitors, I’m not seeing the connection. 

That is the similarity. Not doing full tours, losing often while being entertaining, etc. JS has been placing in the mid to low 20s for a decade, similar to Pioneer.

The goal of winning wasn't pushed at Pioneer. It was a place for kids to cut their teeth in drum corps before they moved on. 

[Old Guy]

2 hours ago, Gantang said:

That is the similarity. Not doing full tours, losing often while being entertaining, etc. JS has been placing in the mid to low 20s for a decade, similar to Pioneer.

The goal of winning wasn't pushed at Pioneer. It was a place for kids to cut their teeth in drum corps before they moved on. 

Ranking lower doesn’t mean that you are not pushing for higher result. In fact, I don’t know one corps that isn’t trying to move up. And I mean REALLY trying. 
 

Now, not everyone is ready to go as far as suicide level. 
 

I met so many people willing to kill a corps for 3 tenth of a point in the ranking. Not pursuing those 3 tenths doesn’t mean you are not putting all you got in getting better. 
 

Each corps has a very different set of challenges. History has been kind for some corps and more challenging for others. Don’t judge corps too fast. Get to know them. You would be surprised what each of them do to still be on the field. 

[fifer]

You could also look at it from the perspective of, why have BDB, SCV Cadets and Spartans (and now Gold too) not been required to move up to Worlds? Where is the line in the sand for scoring that calls for a corps to be in one class or the other?

[cixelsyd]

9 hours ago, Gantang said:

The goal of winning wasn't pushed at Pioneer. It was a place for kids to cut their teeth in drum corps before they moved on. 

"The goal of winning" is not pushed at any corps.  There are 37 corps, and only 2 will win in the end; that makes a very dissatisfying activity if the other 35 have no other goals they can meet.  More importantly, this is a competition where corps pursue excellence in parallel, not an adversarial sport where one team literally defeats another in head-to-head combat.  You can only be the best you can be - you cannot stop someone else from being better than you.

As for Pioneer, it was winning that got them into world-class.  Remember that in 1996, Pioneer was the most hated corps in the world for staying in division II at the same time division I had dropped to an all-time low of 18 entrants.  Ironic that Pioneer later became the most hated corps in the world for staying in world-class.