Chief Guns Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 11 minutes ago, ContraFart said: DCI owes the fans an explanation beyond the scores. I am sure BD fans would like clarity on what happened in 2008 and non BD fans would like clarity on what happened in 2015 and 2019. As a BD fan regarding 2008, drums didn't step up to up plate, they picked the wrong night to lay an egg by BD standards. Phantom won fair and square no excuses. 2015, it's my understanding Crown had a bad run finals night, coupled with BD laying down one of their best runs of the season. Whether for or against BD, I personally have no issues with the final results. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chief Guns said: As a BD fan regarding 2008, drums didn't step up to up plate, they picked the wrong night to lay an egg by BD standards. Phantom won fair and square no excuses. 2015, it's my understanding Crown had a bad run finals night, coupled with BD laying down one of their best runs of the season. Whether for or against BD, I personally have no issues with the final results. Whether BD wins or loses, I have full trust in the judges. They were trained to do what they do, none of us have that training Edited August 9, 2023 by Cappybara 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grandpa Joe Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 9 minutes ago, Cappybara said: Whether BD wins or loses, I have full trust in the judges. They were trained to do what they do, none of us have None of us have what? NONE OF US HAVE WHAT?! You can't just leave us hanging!!! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWhoKnows Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 hours ago, ContraFart said: I get what you are saying, and I really wasn't trying to throw snark to @TheOneWhoKnows. However here is how I am understanding things: If the achievement score is relative to your content score, then at some point content will max out (unless you are adding and layering) and you can perform the content to its maximum effectiveness. i.e. You can have a super easy show with a 5.0 content and a 10.0 achievement. If the achievement score is relative to the rank and rate system of other corps, then content and achievement are used as separate measuring sticks and the achievement score would say that a higher score is cleaner. I can see how it sounds sort of the same, but if the achievement score were only tied to the content score, then a 10.0 in achievement would not mean as much when you have a 5.0 content score. It would mean that they are maxing out their level of content, not that they were better than a corps that scored a 9.9 with a 9.9 content score. Typing this out, I can now see where the "both" argument comes from, it just seems a bit fuzzy to me. Where I differ is with the availability of judging materials. The last time judging sheets were made public by DCI was 2012 and those sheets only had bullet points, not so much a true description of the difference between performance boxes. I honestly believe that judges tapes are the silver bullet here, with our without permission. It can get very confusing. One one hand, we are absolutely providing two separate scores. A content and an achievement. But at the same time we cannot award achievement without recognizing the content. So you can absolutely over achieve your content, but there comes a point where your content holds back your achievement because your performers are capable of more. I believe the highest I have ever seen an achievement score go was .3 above content. Which if you understand the meaning of the tenth and the breakdown of tenths, that’s basically the maximum you can go above content in regards to achievement. A .3 tenth above content suggests you are seriously holding your performers back. And they should be challenged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, Grandpa Joe said: None of us have what? NONE OF US HAVE WHAT?! You can't just leave us hanging!!! Oops fixed it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted August 9, 2023 Author Share Posted August 9, 2023 7 hours ago, Cappybara said: Some of y’all clowns need to study this video closely, just saying 😂 Hey, I resemble that remark! 🤣 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 4 hours ago, ContraFart said: I get what you are saying, and I really wasn't trying to throw snark to @TheOneWhoKnows. However here is how I am understanding things: If the achievement score is relative to your content score, then at some point content will max out (unless you are adding and layering) and you can perform the content to its maximum effectiveness. i.e. You can have a super easy show with a 5.0 content and a 10.0 achievement. If the achievement score is relative to the rank and rate system of other corps, then content and achievement are used as separate measuring sticks and the achievement score would say that a higher score is cleaner. I can see how it sounds sort of the same, but if the achievement score were only tied to the content score, then a 10.0 in achievement would not mean as much when you have a 5.0 content score. No group is scoring a 10 in achievement if their content is a 5. The sheets are not built that way. There has to be a balance between the two. If the show is a 5, then there is not much to actually achieve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Chief Guns said: 2015, it's my understanding Crown had a bad run finals night, coupled with BD laying down one of their best runs of the season. I loved that Crown show and wanted it to win very badly. The SF performance was sublime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ContraFart Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 30 minutes ago, jsd said: No group is scoring a 10 in achievement if their content is a 5. The sheets are not built that way. There has to be a balance between the two. If the show is a 5, then there is not much to actually achieve. That doesn't make sense to me. You can go out and play a few major chords with perfect balance and sonority and get the maximum achievement from minimum content. I thought the entire reason they went to a content/achievement system was to discourage designing content under the level of the corps so you can't go out with a simple show and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacewill Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Great video and information. My only thought and not sure it will ever change is I wish they would take the most subjective category GE and reduce it to 30 and then give Music and Visual 35 each or something of that sort. I know it's all subjective but GE is by and far the one where we see the biggest swings and crazy shifts so why do we keep giving it the most weight? But at this point, I just enjoy the activity and the scores are what they are and no system will ever be perfect so no sense fretting too much on it from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.