Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Sideways said: Then there is the Chumley rule… He was OC finals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 hour ago, 90svet said: Said another way....it's about how enjoyable a show is to watch. Fans would rather watch a cohesive enjoyable show, than a disjointed mess. So....yes....it most certainly is about much more than high level excitement. I oversimplified it. More broadly, it's about how enjoyable a show is to watch. Crown's brass line could spend 12 minutes showcasing their talents, or BAC guard could do back-to-back tosses, but without an interesting show, drum corps would be less appealing. in summary, reducing GE impact would ultimately reduce appeal of the activity. Again enjoyable is in the eye of the iPad holder. I adore Troopers last year and this year but I understand why they aren’t winning GE. Does the show flow? Does the music lineup with the visual? Is the thematic material clear? GE is much more than “enjoyable” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony L. Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 Regardless of all of this, the Blue Devils can go out and play scales and still win. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, ContraFart said: That doesn't make sense to me. You can go out and play a few major chords with perfect balance and sonority and get the maximum achievement from minimum content. I thought the entire reason they went to a content/achievement system was to discourage designing content under the level of the corps so you can't go out with a simple show and win. So, I think it helps if you don't think of them as different scores, and instead think of the two sub-captions, and more importantly, the range between the two as one metric. They also mean different things at different points in the season. You're always going to have a floating range between content and performance. In the beginning of the season, you want this range to be larger with content on top, which shows the judges are responding to the potential of your show, and are giving you a score for what they feel the production could be, vs a lower performance score which shows how well you are actually performing it. "So, why isn't the content score 19 or 20 right out of the gate if it is just gauging potential?" is what I think your question is. While yes it's looking at the potential of the product, there will always be an upper cap on that range based on how well the corps is achieving the product you have given them. One of the considerations would be, is the product at an appropriate level for the specific group, and realistic based on their achievement potential? So if you have effective, but difficult content that the corps is not achieving, you aren't going to get credit for content just because it's cool (this is where in critique you will get "I'd love to give you credit for this, but it's just too dirty to read"). So at the beginning of the season you want a larger range, with content on top. By the end of the season, you would like these numbers to move closer together, showing that you have maxed out potential content, and that the corps is achieving that content. However if the performance score starts coming in higher than content (sometimes referred to as sub-captions being upside down), it's a very bad sign, because it shows that the corps is achieving the product well, but that the product is limited in potential. So, you really want to look at what range you have between the two sub-captions, in what order, at what point in the season, and then rate that against your peers. Does that make more sense? I'm happy to explain further or in another way that is clearer. It's probably one of the more difficult things to parse as an instructor or designer, but it makes more sense the more groups you take through the process, and the more face time you have with the judges during critique sessions. Edited August 9, 2023 by MarimbaManiac 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triple Forte Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 14 hours ago, spacewill said: I can see that. But at the same time, we've seen GE can swing an entire competition because "one Judge" didn't get it. So with it being so subjective, I just have a hard time it out weighing Music and Visuals. But again, there is no perfect scoring system and when humans are involved there will always be controversy. The only way to get rid of it is make everyone play the same music and march the same show and none of us, well none of us with good taste ( 🙂 Pull points out of the most subjective captions and place them in the lesser subjective captions. Most who have been around a while know what those captions are. Why corps don’t want to do this is very interesting to me. I would love to hear 3 reasons why corps are unwilling to adjust the judging system to be the least subjective as possible 😊 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsd Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 8 hours ago, Sideways said: Then there is the Chumley rule… Oh, jeez...Are we really going there again? If you actually think that's a "thing", then you have never listened to a tape of his or been in critique with him. Stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Triple Forte said: Pull points out of the most subjective captions and place them in the lesser subjective captions. Most who have been around a while know what those captions are. Why corps don’t want to do this is very interesting to me. I would love to hear 3 reasons why corps are unwilling to adjust the judging system to be the least subjective as possible 😊 But they are all subjective. All 100 points of the caption system are subjective. Even the penalties for warming up too loud/too nearby are subjective. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted August 9, 2023 Share Posted August 9, 2023 8 hours ago, 90svet said: Said another way....it's about how enjoyable a show is to watch. Fans would rather watch a cohesive enjoyable show, than a disjointed mess. So....yes....it most certainly is about much more than high level excitement. I oversimplified it. More broadly, it's about how enjoyable a show is to watch. Crown's brass line could spend 12 minutes showcasing their talents, or BAC guard could do back-to-back tosses, but without an interesting show, drum corps would be less appealing. in summary, reducing GE impact would ultimately reduce appeal of the activity. Again effect doesn’t take into account the fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deguello Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 9 hours ago, Tony L. said: Regardless of all of this, the Blue Devils can go out and play scales and still win. I bet that BITD Wayne Downey could arrange those scales so that they were jazzy & swinging, so yeah, you're probably right. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideways Posted August 10, 2023 Share Posted August 10, 2023 18 hours ago, jsd said: Oh, jeez...Are we really going there again? If you actually think that's a "thing", then you have never listened to a tape of his or been in critique with him. Stop it. We’ll stop when he stops it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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