Hop's Ideas Re-examined...

[Sexyguardcap]

How many corps want to make the trip to central Florida on June 17th? Shows aren't ready, its tremendously far out of the way (ESPECIALLY FOR THE TOP 6....A TOUR MAKING USAGE OF "SUPERCORPS" CERTAINLY DOESN'T ACCOUNT FOR GEOGRAPHICAL DISPARITY), and also, there are now three shows in Florida (as opposed to only Orlando). Different cities (Ft. Myers and Jacksonville) get to see corps they hadn't seen before...I'm sure they'd prefer that as opposed to the inability to see anything, because fewer shows (because of the "necessity" for big corps) decreases the ability to hold a show in a relatively obscure area.

I had a show in Ottawa, IL, in 2003. The three "big" corps there were Memphis Sound, Revolution, and Impulse. Regardless of the presence of a "supercorps," or even simply a higher-placing divison 2 corps, the fans at that small venue went CRAZY for the performances. You don't need a top 6 corps to have a successful or entertaining show venue, bring drum corps to fans that otherwise hadn't been exposed to it, or garner interest. Keep in mind as well, that if a top 6 corps is coming, concessions people/promoters/etc. need to put out more money for the show, and therefore, ticket prices would probably go up.

I think your right, You don't need a top six corps to have a successful Drum Corps show.

How many people would travel/fly to Murfreesboro to see the top 8 division II/III corps?

Florida is hot in June.

The artical does not dicuss geographical disparity. I thought DCI paid corps more to travel long distances.

[corpsreps]

Basically your interpretation of his vision is wrong.

He does not want to "make " six super corps...and the rest get a smaller piece of the pie.

The corps that earned a top six spot from the previous year would be considered the super corps.

Here's what I don't understand. Once you have a season with six super corps with different rules from the rest of the field, how does a corps move up? How do you supersize a AAA corps? How do you drop a super corps to AAA? That would be like saying that in baseball a team one year could be in the major league and the next in the minors based on how the did competitively against each other.

The proposal says that the super corps would have no rules. AAA would set their own limitations. There is nothing in the proposal that indicates these two groups would compete against each other.

I think the proposal is that you divide up the corps based roughly on current competitive placement. Afterwards there would have to be a mechanism for groups to move between divisions but I doubt it would be based on head to head competition. More that if a group wants to move up, they would apply and possibly be accepted. If a group feels it in their best interest to not tour so much, maybe they can move down.

[idontwan2know]

Some of Mr. Hopkins' ideas have merit, however I question how strongly he believes in some elements as opposed to others. Has he made any realistic effort to move smaller corps towards more sustainable models, or has he(along with most of DCI as an organization) stood by and watched as Div. II/III withered on the vine while continuing to push for changes in instrumentation year after year?

Actions speak louder than words.

On another note, it's sad to see how far the online drum corps community has fallen. I was just joining the online community around the time these articles were presented...we actually had corps directors and instructors from all levels actively participating in discussions. That's pretty much unimaginable these days.

The most thought-provoking article ever presented in the symposiums was "Art vs. Entertainment."

[bawker]

The most thought-provoking article ever presented in the symposiums was "Art vs. Entertainment."

Repost it...it's still relevant to drum corps in 2006.

I think it's high time we look to really have those kinds of insightful conversations again here. :)

[audiodb]

Point by point:

1. DCI had already implemented the name recognition idea with "The Summer Music Games". I think that's one of the best (if not "the best") slogans I've heard. "Music on the Move" is pretty good, but not preferable in my opinion.

2. DCI has implemented the "event" strategy to a degree. While they aren't making every show a top-six fest, they have greatly increased travel (more so for the higher-ranking corps) in order to stir up lineups, perhaps with the goal of making shows more attractive to fans.

3. The realignment of divisions Hopkins presented in this 1997 document is one of the worst ideas I have seen. How are the 7-15 corps, playing by conventional drum corps rules, supposed to compete with the "no rules" class that the top six would morph into? And how would individual units move between those classes? If the Cadets slipped to 7th one year, they'd have to cut all the woodwinds, electronics and amplified vocalists for the following year's division AAA campaign.

Stratification is a very tricky concept. It has it's pros and it's cons, and evidently few people understand the cons. So far, we've only figured out how to stabilize one of DCI's divisions, while the other two continue their attrition at breakneck speed. Adding more competitive divisions at this time (or in 1997) wouldn't help.

4. I'm open to discussing ideas on scoring system wildcards like the fan-based GE sheet Hopkins mentioned here. There are hundreds of ways this could be done, though, and it will be hard to get a consensus to settle on any one method, but it's worth discussing.

5. In the interest of staying on topic, I'll refrain from commenting on instrumentation. Let's stick to the four subjects quoted in the original post.

[idontwan2know]

Repost it...it's still relevant to drum corps in 2006.

I think it's high time we look to really have those kinds of insightful conversations again here. :)

http://www.geocities.com/marchingresearch/obrsym97.txt

It's a very interesting read, though things have changed enough in the years since that the perspective is a little skewed.

Much of what he wanted has come to pass. Certainly the musical diversity of programs has increased a lot, corps are more actively seeking their own identities and you'll often see differing musical styles in one show.

On the other hand, corps have gone much further down the road in the "concept" department, though many of his comments are still relevant. Particularly this one:

While there will undoubtedly be performance and design elements in these shows which earn audience approval, there is also usually a nagging sense on the part of the audience that they have been somehow

left out of the equation.

I'd be very interested to hear Mr. Obrien's take on shows like Cavies '01-'03, and Cadets '05. Personally, I think '01 and '02 succeeded with the audience despite their "deeper meanings", rather than because of them, but the case can certainly be made both ways.

[Jeff Ream]

Basically your interpretation of his vision is wrong.

He does not want to "make " six super corps...and the rest get a smaller piece of the pie.

The corps that earned a top six spot from the previous year would be considered the super corps.

Corps from the top six would be packaged into shows with corps 7 thru whatever.

Making that show an "Event".

That more fans would want to go to.

Which means more money.

That also prevents what we have today.

Look at the June 17th show in Orlando,FL.

Kawanis Kavaliers, Teal Sound and Magic.

How many fans would travel to see that show?

Your last paragraph is just your opinion. nothing wrong with your opinion.

except he then modified his vision later when he talked about having just the super 6 in his infamous slide show in orlando when amps got passed.

but...does just the top 6 really mean more fans will want to go? will the prices be so ridiculously high people cant afford to go? will it further dilute from finals?

the problem with shows today vs in the past is everys how was mae to be special regardless of who was there.

in the East, we had cadets, Crossmen, Boston, Spirit, Suncoast then later Magic, Dutch Boy and later Kiwanis at every show. and attedance at regular season shows was fine...and there were more shows.

3 years ago, I went to Allentown for a 6 corps show that drews less than what some of those shows had, and this had the Cadets and Cavies.

[MikeM]

Hoppy said this:

Drum Corps = Marching Band.

'nuff said. How anyone can take his propsoals seriously after that statement is beyond me.

[Sideways]

Well the trimmings and the details are a bit different. Corps members, for the most part, are a little more intense and focus. But in all reality they are just two subsets of the same genre. Two distinct activities? Yes. Two different activities? I would venture to say no.

[torn8o]

Two distinct activities? Yes. Two different activities? I would venture to say no.

That makes no sense.