The Case for Woodwinds in Drum Corps

[Keith Laubhan]

I don't know but certainly they are an insignificant number whose opinion doesn't count because they are not in agreement with the DCI BOD.

Let's be fair... the DCI BOD hasn't voted woodwinds in (yet)... I hope it stays this way, but so far, as a board, they've preserved the brass/percussion status quo.

[deftguy]

Someone asked several pages ago if I think that quality is the only difference between drum corps and marching band. Obviously there are a lot of differences, such as touring all summer, more difficult drill/music, etc...but to me, that's still just marching band on steroids. It's marching band, but more intense, more often, better performed, and without a woodwind section. A lot of people on here like to get arrogant about how they had it tough and they had to work harder when they were marching and look down on "eww band" way too often. Actually, BOA has been more creative than DCI in recent years...so far it's been a little less entertaining IMO, but there's no doubt that BOA has more new design ideas put into place each year than DCI does. For people who marched in a bad band and a great corps, I know it stings to hear it, but they've been converging for quite a while now.

Anyway, yes. Marching band on steroids.

And here lies the problem with your entire chain of thought. I belong to a marching band that had no WW on the field. All brass, percussion, and guard. We were not a drum corps(even though alot of folks thought we were) we were a band with no marching WW. Band is not Drum corps, not by a long shot. As a person who marched in a Division 1 drum corps AND a first rate marching band program I can tell you they have simularities, but very glaring differences as well.

BOA has not been more creative than Drum corps. BOA has taught me in the last several years that cheezy band still does exist, its just better, has more junk on the field, and is not balanced IMO in overall performance scoring. While there are some very good bands out there, there always has been. Nothing new here.

I think your premise of Drum corps is just plain wrong, and it is pretty arrogant to ask an activity to change itself completely just to accomodate you. If you want to march drum corps, do what I did and either pick up a rifle or flag, or learn a brass instrument that is used in Drum corps. Please do not ask us to accept something that is not representative of the activity known as Drum corps.

[Triple Forte]

The Case for Woodwinds in Drum Corps

As both a BOA and DCI fan, I think we have to seriously consider allowing the inclusion of woodwinds into drum corps.

First of all, the most important benefit of allowing woodwinds is to expand the activity to more people. Drum corps requires a huge commitment as it is, but learning a new instrument is something that shuts out more kids. To become a brass player in a Division I corps, it takes a year of learning the instrument, plus another year of either a DCA or Div II group. Not that there’s anything bad about doing this, but not many are willing to put in two years of learning a new instrument, dishing out money for lessons, not to mention the money and experience they may lose when they decide to devote every summer until they’re 22 for just that one shot at a Div I.

You feel bad because WW players are not allowed to join march corps playing a woodwind instrument.

I have a couple of questions.....

How many different types of musical groups 'have' woodwind instruments that woodwind players can join ?

How many different types of all-brass and percussion groups are there for brass players and percussionists to join ?

Also....I guess the NY Philharmonic and London Symphany Orch. are boring and tired because they have not changed to allow instruments like an electric or bass guitar or drum machine......

Triple Forte

[Lance]

Actually, concerts at which they feature performers on such instruments are wildly popular to a wide range of fans. I don't want woodwinds in drum corps, just sayin...

And as far as electronics go, what do you think sold more, their latest best of music from the Romantic Period, or Hooked on Classics?

[uponatime]

I would like to add my two cents. I palyed a baritone horn as my first Drum Corps instrument. It had one valve and a slide. It was a bugle. I enjoyed the sound and enjoyed making music with my fellow corps members who also played bugles. The instrumentation has changed but they remained bugles no matter how many valves. I also think one of the enjoyments of playing bugles is the dynamics of the music being played from metso forte to metso piano. To do this with quality is what separates the ability of the musicians and the ability of the arrangers to accomplish the goals of achieving musicality. To add to the instrumentation with woodwinds would be changing the activity and no longer would it be Drum and Bugles.

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Nat Mazyck

Wynn Center 1961-1963

OLPH Ridgemen 1963-1967

Sunrisers 1967-1970 1978-1992

[PioSop06]

On the topic of visual uniformity, to this day, I don't know if it's just my area or what, I have rarely, if ever, seen a proper slide in the woodwinds, especially the flutes. Flutes can turn their upper body to the right just fine, but when they turn to the left, it's not unusual for just their head and arms that turn. And as others have said, your bell is straight forward at the audience if you're a brass player, and clarinets/saxes/flutes/piccolos to the box, no visual impact. As a brass player, when you put your horn down, it creates a giant flash of movement from bells in your face to bells towards the ground. The most flash from a WW is the flutes, and thats not even really down. It goes from sideways up into the air. And while we're at it, lets throw Sousaphones into the mix so the tuba players who weren't in bands with corps-style tubas or contras dont have to use their arms, and make it even less uniform!

[WrillyMello]

First of all, the most important benefit of allowing woodwinds is to expand the activity to more people. Drum corps requires a huge commitment as it is, but learning a new instrument is something that shuts out more kids. To become a brass player in a Division I corps, it takes a year of learning the instrument, plus another year of either a DCA or Div II group. Not that there’s anything bad about doing this, but not many are willing to put in two years of learning a new instrument, dishing out money for lessons, not to mention the money and experience they may lose when they decide to devote every summer until they’re 22 for just that one shot at a Div I.

For me, I’m a woodwind who wants to switch over for brass. I’m 19, so there isn’t much time left. There also isn’t much to find in the northeast. The only Div I corps I can attempt is The Cadets (since the Boston Crusaders are really a Florida corps). For an experienced brass player, the Cadets can be difficult to make, but I need to spend extra time, money, and energy to learn the instrument so I can just have that attempt for one summer. I’m sure most kids aren’t willing to go through that (heck, I don’t even know if I’m up to it yet).

Actually, MANY kids do exactly that because they are willing to do what it takes to reach their dreams.

Jetman

What a great post. It was well thought out and you presented your case in a way that others on this site can learn from.

Although, I must respectfully disagree.

For one, yes, I am a "Drum Corps Purist". There have been a lot of things that I lived to see change in this activity. Some diminished my experience (amped vocals) some increased my experience (B flat bugles, pits, to some extent, dance).

Try to think of it like this; I decided a long time ago that I wanted to play trumpet through grade school and high school. I was committed to develop my "talent"; I was good at it and loved it. But, deep down I REALLY wanted to play guitar for a rock band. (They got the chicks!) Because I committed to the trumpet it opened the doors to many wonderful things including marching drum corps and meeting my wife. The rock bands I wanted to play in didn't want trumpets/brass. I felt left out and hurt (I was very young) but I got over it once I realized that by adding brass to a rock band it would totally change the dynamics and sound of the band. This is the same with woodwinds and drum corps. Like I had to deal with my "choice" to play trumpet instead of guitar, you have to deal with your choice to play a woodwind instead of a brass instrument.

Lastly, the lines between BOA and drum corps are already thin. This is one last thing that keeps us what we are and what they are. I disagree with your comment that the two will still be separate if woodwinds are allowed. The addition of woodwinds will turn drum corps into non-school affiliated musical organizations that will eventually compete against marching bands. Then, eventually DCI and BOA will merge. Once this happens, it will be the death of something that I have loved for over 30 years.

p.s. Oh, that rock band I wanted to join. It was a little neiborhood band from Chicago called Styx. You might of heard of them. If you are too young to know them download a song or two or ask your parents about them. After you hear one or two of thier songs, imagine them with a brass section. I am sure you'll agree, it would sound much different. Styx wouldn't be Styx and they may not have been one of the most popular bands of the 70's and 80's.

AMEN!!!

Another idea along those lines would be like an NHL player telling FIFA they have to change their rules so that he can use his hockey stick because he doesn't feel like putting in the effort to learn how to use his feet just so that he can be part of the world cup. Immagine how well that would go over with the soccer community... <**>

If you want it you have to work for it!

You don't get it toph. He wants it. He wants it all. He wants it all right now. He doesn't want to adapt to it, he wants it to adapt to him. He will be mad if it doesn't. Guess what, that's the american way...the attitude of being given everything without having to do anything. He wants a world champion to change its instrumentation so he can march at that level.

To the original poster, there are drum corps that will take you THIS SUMMER. Look at the list at take your pick. I spent three years in a "little" unkown corps and had a great time. I also marched D1 and had a great time. I'm sorry that you waited until you were 19 but you can't just demand any activity to change to suit you.

You're 19 and a woodwind player that wants to march drum corps.

What's with people today, you would rather change the entire activity to suit you than go thru the effort to adapt to the activity?

Good grief!

If you really want to march drum corps, learn a bugle and do it!! I would say thousands of woodwind players have done that very thing over the last 20, 30, 40 years. Such disrespect to them to demand that drum corps change.

And what about all the woodwinds players in drumlines and color guards!! And as DM's!! Such disrespect to those talented folks and their love of corps.

Last thing that solidifies this whole topic.... Picture this: clarinets to the box!! Or better yet, bass guitar amp pusher to the box!! Ugggh!!

I am a woodwind player that wanted to join corps. So I joined the guard. The following year I moved over to brass and that is where I finished out the majority of my years. I was honoured when I was given the duty of DM for my age-out year. It's all about ADAPTING. If you want it bad enough, you will work your butt off and make it happen. When I was still working on playing horn better, I asked my old high school teacher if I could come in during her grade 10 classes and play along with the trumpets so that I could get the extra practice each day. A lot of people out there are willing to help you if you take the time to ask and commit yourself to it.

The Drum Corps division, and the "really long hot dog break" division......

Haha yes!!! Jim you rock!

Finally I would like to say that I am not trying to attack anyone personally. I am just saying that A LOT of very dedicated members over the decades have helped keep Drum Corps the way it is. To make such a massive change like adding WW would just kill the heritage of Corps. The line in the sand keeps fading with each change. We need to put our foot down and keep what is left. I'm sorry if band people don't agree with me. But if you were to march a summer with a corps and experience the music and the activity like current members have, you would understand my frustration. And to think, this is only a perspective from the last decade. I can only immagine how long since members feel about the idea.

[MikeM]

Why? I bet show sponsors would rather see The Cadets, Blue Devils, etc...who might have decided add WW as opposed to losing them forever.

The summer activity is fragile enough IMO...telling some of the corps to go away is hardly helpful.

I'd rather they went away than allow Woodwinds in DCI.

Flame away, I have nomex! :P

[Tone Quality Matters]

The whole thread is pointless. Let's beat a dead horse again. These aren't Drum and woodwind corps, these are drum and bugle corps, and the last time I checked with my simple intelect, a clarinet is not a brass instrument.

[bawker]

The whole thread is pointless. Let's beat a dead horse again. These aren't Drum and woodwind corps, these are drum and bugle corps, and the last time I checked with my simple intelect, a clarinet is not a brass instrument.

It's annual tradition here...this thread always shows up every off-season.