The Case for Woodwinds in Drum Corps

[greggmanX-Kingsmen]

I stopped watching Drum Corps sometime in the early 80’s due to all the props and too much subjective judging. I recently began paying attention again ONLY because The Kingsmen Alumni Corps is slated to perform at DCI prelims this year.

It’s so disturbing to me that adding woodwinds is even a topic for discussion. The second woodwinds are added the activity of Drum and BUGLE Corps ceases to exist, period, end of story.

If you want to join a Drum and BUGLE Corps, GREAT, but learn how to play a bugle, drum, spin a rifle or flag.

Edited January 8, 2007 by greggmanX-Kingsmen

[DrumCorpsFan27]

The Case for Woodwinds in Drum Corps

As both a BOA and DCI fan, I think we have to seriously consider allowing the inclusion of woodwinds into drum corps.

First of all, the most important benefit of allowing woodwinds is to expand the activity to more people. Drum corps requires a huge commitment as it is, but learning a new instrument is something that shuts out more kids. To become a brass player in a Division I corps, it takes a year of learning the instrument, plus another year of either a DCA or Div II group. Not that there's anything bad about doing this, but not many are willing to put in two years of learning a new instrument, dishing out money for lessons, not to mention the money and experience they may lose when they decide to devote every summer until they're 22 for just that one shot at a Div I.

First, if you allow woodwinds into drum corps, you won't have DCI and BOA. You will have BOA and Super BOA. Second, if you are not willing to be devoted, then maybe you shouldn't be in a major D1 corps. The Cadets will expect you to be more devoted to your time with them than anything you have been before.

For me, I'm a woodwind who wants to switch over for brass. I'm 19, so there isn't much time left. There also isn't much to find in the northeast. The only Div I corps I can attempt is The Cadets (since the Boston Crusaders are really a Florida corps). For an experienced brass player, the Cadets can be difficult to make, but I need to spend extra time, money, and energy to learn the instrument so I can just have that attempt for one summer. I'm sure most kids aren't willing to go through that (heck, I don't even know if I'm up to it yet).

Again, I'm sorry that you waited until you were 19 to make this decision. However, the corps were there when you were 10, 15, 17 and 18. That's not drum corps' fault.

We need more people involved in drum corps. Isn't it really about "the kids"? If it is, why do you choose to limit the opportunity to only brass players? Imagine if the numbers doubled at audition camps. Wouldn't this also create the need for more corps, something that I've seen a lot of disappointment about on these forums? We're pushing kids away from the drum corps experience because people who have had the experience don't want to see their precious art form "ruined". In my opinion, the experience is greater than the show you are performing in.

More people involved = most support for DCI = :)

Yes, I would like to see more people involved. However, of the hundreds that tryout for a D1 corps and don't make it, they go home. They could go to other corps, help them and improve their own skills. They choose not to because, like you, if they can't have it all right now, they'd rather sulk and complain than work harder.

Secondly, look at the show design. I know that to us, the corps all have different styles and trademarks and ideas, but to the common viewer…don't they seem the same? If we don't allow woodwinds (or amps, etc.), how are we going to make shows different over the next five, ten, fifteen years and beyond? Sorry percussion players, but are there any drum solos that we haven't heard over the past 30 years? Don't all the initial brass impacts for the corps kinda sound the same? I really love it, but when every corps does it, I could see designs getting stale over the next ten years.

If they all have the same instrumentation, they will still all look the same to an outsider. 10 years ago, a drum corps looked like a marching band to one who does not know. Reference George Hopkins 1997 presentation, Drum Corps is Marching Bans. However, it is the visual package that has changed the most IMO, over the past 20-30 years. So, I'm not sure your prediction will come true.

There seems to be a fear on these boards when it comes to adding woodwinds to drum corps. The typical response is sarcastic or shallow – "I'll die when they add woodwinds to drum corps". Don't lie to yourself – you know you'll all come back when they add woodwinds. Drum corps fans are extremely committed to the activity…for all the talk of giving it up forever, I doubt you'll leave the stands empty when DCI comes to your area. Fans of sports always make these claims whenever their sport goes on a strike or when a star player is rumored to be traded, yet they always come back. We can't get away from the activity.

I have already reduced to how many shows I go to since I don't appreciate the changes made. That's no lie. Hence, it is not hard for me to say that I just may not pay for one more "drum corps" show if woodwinds are admitted. We already have an activity for marching woodwinds. As it stands now, we also have an activity for an exclusively brass and percussion activity. You are demanding that be killed to suit your purpose.

Thanks!

"That's band". Honestly, who cares? Drum corps is marching band. It's at an extremely high level of performance and is the best we have at this point, but it's still just marching band. Most of you probably have negative views on band because for every great band, there are hundreds that display their stereotype of high school bands. If you're in a high-level band, however, you'll notice the benefits woodwinds can provide. YouTube "Ronald Reagan 2003" and you'll see what amps and woodwinds can do for a marching show.

As you point out, we already have marching bands. Some of them are very high quality. So, woodwind players have access to do that.

Not every show will be typical BOA. I think we should allow amps/voice/woodwinds, but this year BOA went over the edge with it. There were way too many woodwind solos and just…weird voiceovers. The shows made the Cadets 06 look traditional.

Yet I don't think DCI has to turn out this way. It goes overlooked that BOA has an incredible 60% of the score go to General Effect, so most schools go straight to the gimmicky stuff that does well there. I don't think that will happen in DCI because the performers play at a much higher level, reducing the need to take up 2 minutes of a show with a solo. Besides, as we've seen this summer, if fans really don't like a show, it won't do well. If we allow woodwinds, it doesn't mean that the fans have no input as the shows spiral out of control. Corps aren't going to willingly decide to produce boring shows. Also, the schedules for BOA and DCI are radically different, another reason why I don't think DCI will turn into what BOA has become.

So this is why I believe we need to include woodwinds in drum corps. This should no longer be an idea for future decades, but is something that should be proposed and passed in the near future.

So, you don't like BOA and you want drum corps to be marching band because you like DCI better than BOA. I wish I could get entire activities to change for me. I'll start with the NFL. I want them to change the rules that they can't tackle me so I can sign a big contract and live out my dream. Will you help me with that? (yep, that was sarcasm, but also true)

[Walter]

Okay. So, since we have DCI and WGI, why not create an MBI?

You may as well call it Marching Bands of America because the only bands you'll get will be from the USA !!

And Drum & Bugle Corps died the minute TRUMPETS were ALLOWED to march !!!

Edited January 8, 2007 by ODBC

[bawker]

Michael, does this mean you're for woodwinds?

"Drum corps is whatever it becomes".

[MikeM]

It would be redundant. DCI is already there.

If you subscribe to the Drum Corps = Marching Band theory.

Obviously, the people who subscribe to that theory is limited.

[drumcat]

First, let me say I'm 100% against woodwinds of any type.

Second, no matter how you slice it, drum and bugle corps were founded and have been based on the simple requirement that they have nothing beyond brass and percussion.

Third, fundamentally changing instrumentation would require driving a huge, seismic wedge in a niche community.

Fourth, the appeal of drum and bugle corps is that this is a brass-centric activity. It is absurd to believe that the fans in this activity don't appreciate the power of all-brass.

Fifth, fundamentally altering the sound of drum corps with woodwinds would require larger ensembles, further endangering the activity.

Finally, we talk a lot about tradition in this forum, and the breakneck pace by which we breeze past it in drum corps at times. It's very true that tradition is upset by a lot of things, but it has made drum corps better for many. Multi-key comes to mind. It made drum corps better, even though we eschewed the bugle. However, it did not fundamentally adjust the sport.

Brass + Percussion + Guard + Movement + Touring = Drum Corps

Any alteration to this fundamental equation, and you alter the state of drum corps.

IF, and there's not, but IF there was a market for this, you have a drum corps that is on the bleeding edge of wanting woodwinds - The Cadets. If there is indeed a market, and a desire, then let them be it. Let them take the plunge. If this is so great an idea, allow The Cadets to spread the gospel one summer in exhibition. Or let them strike out on their own and be the best #### band in the land. Personally, I'd love to see what they would do with it, but NOT at the expense of changing the drum and bugle corps activity as a whole.

Let there be a marching band division of one, and let the people calling for change be the one to bet their organization on it. I see FOOL'S GOLD, as do many, many others. Let them be the flag-bearers, and let them live and die by woodwinds. If they are that compelling, let's see it on a field.

[torn8o]

edit

Edited January 8, 2007 by torn8o

[MikeD]

First, if you allow woodwinds into drum corps, you won't have DCI and BOA. You will have BOA and Super BOA.

How so? It will still be DCI if they decide to permit WW and electronics in some for or other.

Again, I'm sorry that you waited until you were 19 to make this decision. However, the corps were there when you were 10, 15, 17 and 18. That's not drum corps' fault.

Agree, but if DCI had permitted WW in the past, there may have been even more players than today, as IMO they would have to bump up the size another bus-ful, up to 180-200.

Yes, I would like to see more people involved. However, of the hundreds that tryout for a D1 corps and don't make it, they go home. They could go to other corps, help them and improve their own skills. They choose not to because, like you, if they can't have it all right now, they'd rather sulk and complain than work harder.

Wow, Dave, way to make a snap judgement call on someone you do not know.

Maybe they do not go to another corps because to them the cost/benefit for selecting another corps just is not something they find attractive.

I have already reduced to how many shows I go to since I don't appreciate the changes made. That's no lie. Hence, it is not hard for me to say that I just may not pay for one more "drum corps" show if woodwinds are admitted. We already have an activity for marching woodwinds. As it stands now, we also have an activity for an exclusively brass and percussion activity. You are demanding that be killed to suit your purpose.

Adding WW will not kill drum corps...IMO it won't even kill off all brass/percussion, as I think it will be done in a separate division.

As you point out, we already have marching bands. Some of them are very high quality. So, woodwind players have access to do that.

Untrue. Unlike drum corps, the scholastic band world it totally dependent on where you live.

[Keith Laubhan]

First, let me say I'm 100% against woodwinds of any type.

Second, no matter how you slice it, drum and bugle corps were founded and have been based on the simple requirement that they have nothing beyond brass and percussion.

Third, fundamentally changing instrumentation would require driving a huge, seismic wedge in a niche community.

Fourth, the appeal of drum and bugle corps is that this is a brass-centric activity. It is absurd to believe that the fans in this activity don't appreciate the power of all-brass.

Fifth, fundamentally altering the sound of drum corps with woodwinds would require larger ensembles, further endangering the activity.

Finally, we talk a lot about tradition in this forum, and the breakneck pace by which we breeze past it in drum corps at times. It's very true that tradition is upset by a lot of things, but it has made drum corps better for many. Multi-key comes to mind. It made drum corps better, even though we eschewed the bugle. However, it did not fundamentally adjust the sport.

Brass + Percussion + Guard + Movement + Touring = Drum Corps

Any alteration to this fundamental equation, and you alter the state of drum corps.

IF, and there's not, but IF there was a market for this, you have a drum corps that is on the bleeding edge of wanting woodwinds - The Cadets. If there is indeed a market, and a desire, then let them be it. Let them take the plunge. If this is so great an idea, allow The Cadets to spread the gospel one summer in exhibition. Or let them strike out on their own and be the best #### band in the land. Personally, I'd love to see what they would do with it, but NOT at the expense of changing the drum and bugle corps activity as a whole.

Let there be a marching band division of one, and let the people calling for change be the one to bet their organization on it. I see FOOL'S GOLD, as do many, many others. Let them be the flag-bearers, and let them live and die by woodwinds. If they are that compelling, let's see it on a field.

I can't disagree with anything that was just said... even being a percussionist, one of the things that draws me to drum corps as an artform is the full, undiluted brass lines. I'm not saying woodwinds are inferior instruments or anything, but you simply can't acheive a similar sound by throwing a handful of clarinets or saxes into the mix.

[DrumCorpsLives]

You're 19 and a woodwind player that wants to march drum corps.

What's with people today, you would rather change the entire activity to suit you than go thru the effort to adapt to the activity?

Good grief!

If you really want to march drum corps, learn a bugle and do it!! I would say thousands of woodwind players have done that very thing over the last 20, 30, 40 years. Such disrespect to them to demand that drum corps change.

And what about all the woodwinds players in drumlines and color guards!! And as DM's!! Such disrespect to those talented folks and their love of corps.

Last thing that solidifies this whole topic.... Picture this: clarinets to the box!! Or better yet, bass guitar amp pusher to the box!! Ugggh!!