HockeyDad Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 1 hour ago, BRASSO said: A lot of this becomes " settled slotting " long before June too, imo..It begins in earnest in the off season, imo. So few Corps move up or down more than 2 or 3 placement positions from one season to the next. Not only in the World Class Division, but in Open Class Division as well. There are anomalies to this, but the norm is that 90% of all Corps stay within 2 placement positions from one season to the next. One has to look at a longer history, ie 3-4 years, to see more placement movement trends up or down with all these Corps. Even here, despite rather significant marcher turnovers with all these Corps after each and every season, a significant majority of Corps stay pretty much where they are placement wise throughout an entire decade or more. There are explainable and understandable reasons for such placement " inertias " for the vast majority of these World Class and Open Class Corps too, imo, but this is beyond the scope of this thread for discussion, really.. Yup. Crazy, isn't it? Or, may I offer , BORING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Boy you can tell the season ended 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whiskey Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Someone needs to make a Competitive Inertia t-shirt. And on the back it should read "Is it just consistency or conspiracy?" 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePlanets Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 1 hour ago, BRASSO said: A lot of this becomes " settled slotting " long before June too, imo..It begins in earnest in the off season, imo. So few Corps move up or down more than 2 or 3 placement positions from one season to the next. Not only in the World Class Division, but in Open Class Division as well. There are anomalies to this, but the norm is that 90% of all Corps stay within 2 placement positions from one season to the next. One has to look at a longer history, ie 3-4 years, to see more placement movement trends up or down with all these Corps. Even here, despite rather significant marcher turnovers with all these Corps after each and every season, a significant majority of Corps stay pretty much where they are placement wise throughout an entire decade or more. There are explainable and understandable reasons for such placement " inertias " for the vast majority of these World Class and Open Class Corps too, imo, but this is beyond the scope of this thread for discussion, really.. The one recent and relatively consistent exception to this rule is champions who are not BD starting in the LOS era Phantom 1st to 9th Cadets 1st to 4th Crown 1st to 5th BLOO 1st to 5th Both Cadets and Phantom than rallied for a few years then faded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 21 minutes ago, ThePlanets said: The one recent and relatively consistent exception to this rule is champions who are not BD starting in the LOS era Phantom 1st to 9th Cadets 1st to 4th Crown 1st to 5th BLOO 1st to 5th Both Cadets and Phantom than rallied for a few years then faded. Yes, even the NY Mets went from 9th to 1st from '68 to '69... then didn't make the playoffs in '70. Sports have FAR more placement movements among their teams from season to season than DCI Drum Corps. College and Pro. Since 1976 when the Blue Devils won their 1st DCI Title, no sports team, College or Pro, has won anything remotely close to 18 Titles in this similar 1976-2018 time frame. Its completely unheard of. Edited August 14, 2018 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranintothedoor Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 2 hours ago, BRASSO said: ... Since 1976 when the Blue Devils won their 1st DCI Title, no sports team, College or Pro, has won anything remotely close to 18 Titles in this similar 1976-2018 time frame. Its completely unheard of. Buccaneers are in a similar boat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_Buccaneers_Drum_and_Bugle_Corps only times they didn't win in the past 14 years? 2011, 2016... and maybe this year... we'll see! DCA Championships 4.11965 4.21968 4.31979 4.41980 4.52005 4.62006 4.72007 4.82008 4.92009 4.102010 4.112012 4.122013 4.132014 4.142015 4.152017 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Is this thread about corps not being able to win because judges don't believe they're good enough to win unless they've medaled recently? I haven't seen this happen. I believe every show that has won in the past 20 years has won because it deserved to win. As far as moving up the ranks, well that's difficult for good reason. It takes a lot of talent and experience to write a good show, and a lot of talent and experience to perform it. Are there examples of shows/corps that obviously should have moved up the ranks but didn't because of this competitive inertia? Or is this all just speculation and theory? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, BoyWonder1911 said: Are there examples of shows/corps that obviously should have moved up the ranks but didn't because of this competitive inertia? Or is this all just speculation and theory? I suppose the question could likewise be posed :... " Are their Corps placements that could be named that disproves the current validity of the Theory of Competitive Inertia's fundamental premise ? ". I used to poo poo the theory initially. Several years back as a matter of fact, when he first introduced it to us. But lo and behold, I went back and did the research of a single Corps that could disprove the OP's theory, but could not find a single instance, a single Corps. The OP does not set out to explain WHY Competitive Inertia works.. Only that it does. Absent any instance where the Theory becomes invalidated through a Corps breaking through, one is compelled to accept that his Theory of Competitive Inertia,( as he names it), seems to be unshakable at the moment. Lots of Theories over the years have been disproven as time moves on. In this case, time has not diminished the Theory. The on going time application ( over a decade now ) has only solidified its value as a theory with some degree of increasing merit to it, imo. Edited August 14, 2018 by BRASSO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 I would think that Cavs beating Bluecoats last year at Finals, a year after winning, would say something against it, and then on top of that, BAC over taking those supposed resurgent Cavs this season. The judges got it right this season, in order. Boston won guard over Blue Devils. Now BAC has competitive inertia and it would not surprise me to see them with a bronze next season,.if they improve their brass line. If they medal, then the CI theory is debunked. But if they don't, then it's CI that is conspiring against them. It's also a conspiracy if they only take 3rd. Its a conspiracy that Blue Devils are always first or 2nd. That's what I think this is about. If BD had won in 2013 then i might take it more.seriously. Because that show was terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWonder1911 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) Okay so the theory is that you have to take 2nd or 3rd before the judges allow you to win. First of all, the judges don't get together and conspire. Let's go back and look at Crown 2009. They won brass and music ensemble. Okay those are more objective. Two of the judges had them in first. Even though they've never medaled before that. Can we include Bluecoats 2014? Or is that null and void because they took 3rd in 2010? 2014 BD kicked everyone's butt and it wasn't even close. Except SCV won percussion. There are very few examples. I guess the only way to debunk this theory now is if BAC can manage to win a title next year. And if not, then they can't medal. Edited August 14, 2018 by BoyWonder1911 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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