2008: Worst Drum Corps Year Ever?

[Triple Forte]

What an interesting thread.

I'm 52, marched 70-75, became a band director because of drum corps.

I believe the talent level today is overall much better than ever, however, what is being presented on the field ( for the most part) comes across as very dry and seldom something that people in the stands can feel they are a part of.

To play page 285 out of the Arban book while moving at 150 bpm is about as entertaing as what is being presented on the field. Yes, it's fantastic as far as showing your skills but it won't do a whole lot to communicate emotion to the people in the stands.

I believe it was Hoffman that said in an interview back in the early 80's something to this effect:

Maybe 5 out of 100 people in the stands will know a obscure classical piece.

Maybe 40 out of 100 people in the stands will know Copeland

Maybe 75 out of 100 people in the stands will know and understand a Kenton chart

But EVERYONE in the stands will know " Gene Gene the Dancing Machine".

It was his belief that the corps was there to entertain and build a relationship with the people in the stands and to make it as uplifting as possible.

Around the same time, Chuck Manganoie ( sp ? ) was interviewed when he was on the PBS telecast. He made one of the most direct comments about music and it's relationship to people. He just said " you know, music is where people turn, music is the common thread that binds us together. Music is where we go when we feel sad, it's where we go when we are happy, when we are in love, when we feel spiritual or patriotic.

While todays corps are testing the outer limits of physical and technical ability as never before, in way too many cases todays corps have not reached out and touched the soul or internal spirit of the people in the stands. we have lost the relationship with each other. yes, we are wowed by musical impacts that are written TO the visual impact, but it's only something we observe. It's not something we can SHARE.

While I agree that tinkering with music is necessary for certain visual impacts, the drill should be written to the music, not music written to the drill. Yes, there are exceptions and the Cavies stunned me several years ago with the concept, but it was an impressive technical display only.

For the past several years I have been able to enjoy more emotion in the lot than watching a show.

The people in the stands need to be included in the show by emotional communication. we need to FEEL the depth of the feeling of the performers. We could get into and swing with BD when they did Buddy Rich or stan Kenton. We could cry with Let It Be Me, we could laugh WITH the Bridgeman or VK. we would sit stunned by the hands in the wall.....and we all chocked up when that balloon took flight representing the soldiers soul. On the other hand, we had that warm " all's well feeling" as SkyRiders "OZ" balloon lifted off into the might sky and seemed to stay in sight forever.

Even in the 90's, we were courted as partners in the performance. We were wooed and seduced into the show, we were made to feel what the performers were feeling no matter if it was classical, swing, blues or broadway.

Seldom in todays shows do I feel the designers have taken our hearts and souls into consideration.

Instead, we feel like we are in a relationship with a lover that is indefferent to us, physically they are a 10, but emotionally detached.

Lover Come Back to Me

Well stated.......

[skajerk]

[snip]

The people in the stands need to be included in the show by emotional communication. we need to FEEL the depth of the feeling of the performers. We could get into and swing with BD when they did Buddy Rich or stan Kenton. We could cry with Let It Be Me, we could laugh WITH the Bridgeman or VK. we would sit stunned by the hands in the wall.....and we all chocked up when that balloon took flight representing the soldiers soul. On the other hand, we had that warm " all's well feeling" as SkyRiders "OZ" balloon lifted off into the might sky and seemed to stay in sight forever.

Even in the 90's, we were courted as partners in the performance. We were wooed and seduced into the show, we were made to feel what the performers were feeling no matter if it was classical, swing, blues or broadway.

Seldom in todays shows do I feel the designers have taken our hearts and souls into consideration.

Instead, we feel like we are in a relationship with a lover that is indefferent to us, physically they are a 10, but emotionally detached.

Lover Come Back to Me

That one paragraph says it all for me. Those moments from the '84 Suncoast show you mention still, to this day, have a profound affect on me. I'm not sure I'll be able to say the same things in 24 years about some of the shows I see now.

[Meaghatron]

You tend to love most what you grow up with. I've followed the most recent seasons of DCI, so naturally, I love those shows more than the older ones. I experienced them live. I saw them develop throughout the season. In a couple cases, I personally know some who have marched in those shows. There's a personal connection.

I do like some of the older shows, but I didn't experience them the same. They don't mean the same to me. My first viewing of a show outside of this decade was through my friend's Classic Countdown DVD. I saw a couple shows from each decade. They didn't captivate me as much as the modern shows, but there was still some great moments that I enjoyed.

Newer fans sometimes bash the old shows and vice versa. It comes down to personal preference. I don't know why people constantly argue these points. Some people will never like the old shows, and some people will never like the new ones. Bashing on either side accomplishes nothing. Just state your opinion, respectfully, and move on. There's no need to beat a dead horse/

[saxfreq1128]

That's not equivalent. I WAS there for both ends, so you can't tell me that my experience with the newer stuff vs yours is the same as your lack of experiencing the older vs mine.

Look, it may be possible that I can be jaded by many years of watching DCI, but I try to control for that when I see something new. It still doesn't explain the lack of oomph I get from today's DCI. Let's hope your youthful enthusiasm lasts longer than mine and many of my compatriots'. Take this as a word of warning: someday the same may very well happen to you. Be prepared for the first time someone calls you a dinosaur.

This is bound to go nowhere, especially if you keep making assumptions about the way I feel about your experiences, opinions, etc.

I'm not trying to equate my experiences as a younger fan with your experiences as an older fan -- and I don't think anyone is.

My point, stated pretty clearly, is that I don't see any use in trying to value one experience of drum corps over another. I'm not going to dismiss however many years of perspective you have purely because it doesn't gel with my own opinions -- but, you're right, I'm never going to value your opinion over my own purely because of those years of perspective. I can't help but wonder if that's actually what you're asking for.

We identify with the shows we grew up with. That means something different for us each. I happen to be a fan of current shows because they're more in tune with the standard I grew up watching. This says nothing about your opinions, or about how i feel about your opinions, and everything about mine. If this makes me a dinosaur in 20 years, so be it. If it's so inevitable, why are you so hung up on it now?

And I, for one, never called you or anyone a dinosaur in the first place, but if that's what you're reacting to, this conversation is going to seem more like a crisis of age than like a discussion about drum corps.

Edited July 2, 2008 by saxfreq1128

[DrumCorpsFan27]

At the D1 level, the decline in the number of corps was no more dramatic over the last 15 years than it was from 1979 (43 corps in DCI open, now world, class prelims) to 1989 (29 open class corps). It seems that the greatest loss in numbers occurred at the local level and predated current arranging trends. At the open class level, shows were still relatively fan friendly when powerhouses from the 70s and 80s such as 27, North Star, Kingsmen, Seneca Optimists, Kilties, Offensive Lions, Bridgemen, Guardsmen, etc. folded and, later, when Star left the activity.

That does not mean that design trends can influence fan and member interest but other factors probably had more to do with the decline in the number of corps .

Funny how when numbers are up, it's DCI's vision, but when numbers are down, it's "other factors."

[ToferVis]

Is it just me or has the quality of DCI declined significantly in the past two years? To me it doesn't seem to be the level of talent among the members of the corps that is lacking, but in the the designs of the shows themselves. It is especially apparent this year in the top 6 or 7 corps (Cavaliers, Blue Devils, Cadets, etc...). The narration in the Cadets' show is an unmitigated disaster, the level of sophistication in the BD and Cavalier shows is that of a high school marching band. The only two shows I saw with any sort of potential were SCV and Bluecoats, but even their shows have significant design flaws.

What does everyone else think?

i just think you're overrating the whole situation.

DCI will be fine. Will it change? yes. Will it make everyone happy? no

Oh well, so is the world.

[Fran Haring]

Back in my day fans hung from the rafters.

We could hold notes for two minutes and longer

The parking lots were so big they had to call the national guard to handle the crowds

We were so loud we broke nearby windows

Tickets were 50 cents

They used real bullets in the starter gun

The grass was 12 inches high

We killed local farm animals to feed the corps

Drum sticks only lasted one show then we would have to throw them away

We had 90 thousand in PAID attendance

We drove buses with the heater on

We have members play a show with one corps then quickly change and play for another

And we LIKED it, dadgummit!!!!!

I grew up on the "old stuff" and still enjoy it.

But like I said in an earlier post, last year's DCI top seven was the best I've ever seen.

Fran

[Hrothgar15]

I'm 19 and I know entertainment when I see it. I really do think corps aren't as entertaining today as they were in the '80s and '90s, and I saw my first live show in 2005. I think lately for the most part, shows are less musically and performance focused, not as musically mature, less accessible and understandable, and overall less entertaining to the viewer, than was the case in 1980s and 1990s. But then again even this year we're getting corps like Blue Stars, Carolina Crown, Boston Crusaders, and Santa Clara Vanguard that bring back some of these ideals I believe in and knock your socks off, so I'm just gonna focus on corps like them. This year seems to be a huge step in the right direction.

[The Other Mike]

I'm 19 and I know entertainment when I see it. I really do think corps aren't as entertaining today as they were in the '80s and '90s, and I saw my first live show in 2005. I think lately for the most part, shows are less musically and performance focused, not as musically mature, less accessible and understandable, and overall less entertaining to the viewer, than was the case in 1980s and 1990s. But then again even this year we're getting corps like Blue Stars, Carolina Crown, Boston Crusaders, and Santa Clara Vanguard that bring back some of these ideals I believe in and knock your socks off, so I'm just gonna focus on corps like them. This year seems to be a huge step in the right direction.

You are wise for your years Grasshopper.

( but too young to know the refrence ? )

[MikeD]

What an interesting thread.

I'm 52, marched 70-75, became a band director because of drum corps.

I believe the talent level today is overall much better than ever, however, what is being presented on the field ( for the most part) comes across as very dry and seldom something that people in the stands can feel they are a part of.

To play page 285 out of the Arban book while moving at 150 bpm is about as entertaing as what is being presented on the field. Yes, it's fantastic as far as showing your skills but it won't do a whole lot to communicate emotion to the people in the stands.

I believe it was Hoffman that said in an interview back in the early 80's something to this effect:

Maybe 5 out of 100 people in the stands will know a obscure classical piece.

Maybe 40 out of 100 people in the stands will know Copeland

Maybe 75 out of 100 people in the stands will know and understand a Kenton chart

But EVERYONE in the stands will know " Gene Gene the Dancing Machine".

It was his belief that the corps was there to entertain and build a relationship with the people in the stands and to make it as uplifting as possible.

The same Bobby Hoffman who wrote Garfield's 1971 Revolutionary War show (remember...the year drum corps died) and even more so...our 72 "No More War" show.

Music such as Mahler's 5th, Howard Hansen's "Children's Dance", Clifton Williams' "Sinfonians", Ive's "Variations on America".