garfield Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I never marched DCI, but I have been a fan forever and my son has marched the last two years. I did go to music school at Indiana, and have been a life-long musician. I will say that the experience of poor sound that is described in this thread was not my experience at all. My sister, a musician and music teacher for 25 years went with me and saw DCI for the first time- she also had no complaints about the sound or the experience- just the opposite. Not doubting that you enjoyed your time, as it seems many here have no complaints. But a question is: how many outdoor shows have you been to? And you noticed no difference? Just askin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dapperpoet Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Not doubting that you enjoyed your time, as it seems many here have no complaints. But a question is: how many outdoor shows have you been to? And you noticed no difference?Just askin' Well, I was on the road for three weeks last summer- probably two dozen or more outside shows. Just sayin'.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob984 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Share Posted December 4, 2009 So let's see, beautiful state of the art stadium. Excellent parking, accommodations, airport access, centrally located, great restaurants and a city who knows how to host big events (numerous NCAA championships in basketball, Colts, Pacers, etc) not to mention being the headquarters for the NCAA. I loved the event there this summer. All domes have issues (I've seen DCI in the RCA dome, Georgia Dome, Alamo Dome, and now Lucas) but no threat of ever being cancelled or interrupted by weather and all of the above advantages listed above more than outweigh less than perfect acoustics. Did I love seeing the 2008 championship in the stadium where I marched in college AND outside? Yes. Is Bloomington (or Allentown) a better all-around experience than Lucas Oil? Not by a longshot. It's fine that you were enthralled with the experience and have no big problem with the acoustics.....however, I, and many, disagree that "creature comforts" far outweigh the sound (and thus performance) of the corps and the listening experience for the fans, and disagree over the assessment of the sound. I've been to a ton of nationals, and this was by far the worse sounding place I experienced. I've done this activity for over 30 years. I've sat in prelim shows in 100+ degree heat and some sunburn. Frankly, I found my Bloomington experience in 2008 to be far better. The stadium sounded GREAT. I liked the college town. Had a good meal at a reasonable price in a local restaurant. It wasn't a bad ride up to Indy, where I flew in and also stayed. For many of us, drum corps is an OUTDOOR "sport", and as long as we have a decent seat in a good sounding stadium with a good crowd on hand, and a place where we can buy a soda and a bathroom....that's all that we need. Bloomington fits....so does Allentown.....Lucas? I would sacrifice the comfort any day for a stadium that sounds good. Yea, the fluff is nice, but drum corps isn't about the fluff......many of us marched the activity and did the summers of gym floors and 14 hour parking lot rehearsals.....so, "surviving the elements" is no big deal at a championship show........however, again, you have your right to your differing opinion........ GB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I never marched DCI, but I have been a fan forever and my son has marched the last two years. I did go to music school at Indiana, and have been a life-long musician. I will say that the experience of poor sound that is described in this thread was not my experience at all. My sister, a musician and music teacher for 25 years went with me and saw DCI for the first time- she also had no complaints about the sound or the experience- just the opposite. i'm glad you had a great experience. However, your experience is heavily outweighted by those with the opposite view Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Well, I was on the road for three weeks last summer- probably two dozen or more outside shows. Just sayin'.. Another question: How many ISSMA and GN finals have you attended? I've noticed that many people who are attached to these events hold the same opinion as you. Which is a completely legitimate opinion, of course, and is exactly what DCI is banking on to make LOS sustainable as a venue. But to those of us used to drum corps AND marching band out of doors, the difference between Indy in 09 and Bloomington in 08 was like night and day. I may have this all wrong, and if I do I apologize. It just seems to be common among folks associated with marching band in Indiana. One more bone of contention: Indy may be better capable of hosting DCI in terms of hotel space, schools, etc., but NO WAY does it have better restaurant scene than Bloomington! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 Another question: How many ISSMA and GN finals have you attended? I've noticed that many people who are attached to these events hold the same opinion as you. Which is a completely legitimate opinion, of course, and is exactly what DCI is banking on to make LOS sustainable as a venue. But to those of us used to drum corps AND marching band out of doors, the difference between Indy in 09 and Bloomington in 08 was like night and day. I may have this all wrong, and if I do I apologize. It just seems to be common among folks associated with marching band in Indiana. One more bone of contention: Indy may be better capable of hosting DCI in terms of hotel space, schools, etc., but NO WAY does it have better restaurant scene than Bloomington! The restaurants and clubs in INDY were far better than Bloomington. Night life was great. city was great , schools were great ,warm up area and stadium so so . I am sure this will improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deftguy Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 2¢ from physics grounded person but non-specialist in acoustics, reverb from the stands has always been a part of drum corps performances and is not undesirable. It's the reflections from the roof that destroy the ambiance. Even if the back and side seating are turned into acoustic black holes, there will still be echo from the roof that is entirely at odds with people's aural conditioning. The difference between complimentary reflections from the stands, and destructive build up of low frequency reverberation within a closed space is night and day. The problem with Lucas Oil Stadium is a long reverberation time at low frequencies, and there is really no way to cure that except installing large Hemholtz resonators that would soak up targeted low frenquency reflections, and prevent them from building up. No curtain can do that regardless of thickness, low frequencies would just pass right through it as if they weren't there. Reducing reflection from the back and sides reduces one of the sound return paths via the ceiling, but the one-bounce ceiling to listener path will still be there. If DCI recognizes the acoustics as a problem and wants to mitigate it effectively, IMO the curtains are not the solution. The solution lies in dealing with the roof and overhead superstructure, which I would hazard to guess is way out of bounds in terms of expense. It is not just the roof, it is any hard surface that is exposed, including the facades and windows. Even if you damped the roof reflections from the roof, you still have the field surface, and any exposed walls and windows. The problem is not just the roof, it is mutliple reflections that are combining and subtracting each other coming from all of the exposed surfaces. Reverberation is especially rich in the mid to low bass, which means treating it is cost prohibative. You have to build reflective control of the low bass within the superstructure of the building. They probably reached their target acoustical goals for football games as it was designed for, but that makes it lousy for live acoustical or amplified music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wadep66 Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 Thanks for the first belly laughs I've had all day. There are truly some crafty comics on here. Since I got beaten for coming off as a DCI hater in another thread, I'll spare the rant about the bad seats and lack of addressing complaints. To the technical topic on the reverb, agree with everything I've read here. From my super-premium endzone seats, the sound was fantastic as long as there were no drums playing. Hence 98.765 percent of the evening sounded like a low-rider Cadillac with 20 inch woofers was parked behind me playing Boom Boom Pow all night. I was skeptical that it could be as bad as a lot of folks on here were predicting so I put my butt on a plane and shelled out a lot of money and time for what was probably my most disappointing two drum corps shows ever. I'll save the money and go pay for quarterfinals in the movie theater, although I'm skeptical that the recording equipment can somehow mask all the low frequency crap that made the live performance unbearable. I'm very sad that for 10 years I won't be going to finals again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyDad Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 DCI reported that they will take into consideration all ideas and comments, and if you come up with a better idea, like moving Finals, they will strongly consider it, provided you pay the lease-breaking fees.Just kidding. I came up with a better idea, I'm voting with my feet. Sounds like others are too. You can have the oil can, I'll get tix to the show in Minneapolis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTNK Posted December 5, 2009 Share Posted December 5, 2009 The drums will always have an enormous echo. That is why Hop mused 3 years ago that Lucas Oil will probably lead to the end of the marching drumline as we know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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