bawker Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 My point, Chicken Little, was that corps designers will adjust to playing in LOS. Some of them did a very nice job of compensating based on the available info in 2009, and not by "playing mf". They will do an even better job in 2010.It's time that drum corps designers stop thinking like drum corps designers and more like people putting on a real show...one that can be preformed to a high level in whatever the available venue. This is one area where corps that do electronics well will really excel. So, I'm Chicken Little for voicing concerns about show design . . . concerns that you, yourself, just put forth in the fourth sentence quoted above. If you, as a sound guy, aren't really taken with the direction most corps are going with this just yet . . .then that doesn't really bode too well for the rest of us aurally for the next few years. Giving people time to "get it right" has been the clarion call since 2004 . . .time to get amplification right, time to utilize electronics correctly, and now time to change show design to work well in a dome. How much more of a pass do these people deserve? The next ten years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOReason Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) Folks...this is a DOMED STADIUM....AND you have approx. 150 folks on the field performing a drum corps show...AND there is apparently a contract!! Sure DCI could hire an acoustical engineer, who would probably take their money and laugh all the way to the bank...OR they could request the corps design their show with the acoustics of a domed stadium in mind (and HOW exactly does one do that), thereby shifting the onus of blame to the show designers...OR they could do nothing and STILL perform to a full house. Gee, I wonder how this will all turn out..... Edited December 6, 2009 by VOReason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Rex pointed out to me that one thing that corps could do to optimize the sound for this venue would be to turn down the BASS 'reinforcement' coming from the amps. Several corps just amp'd the &*%$#^ out of their low-end. That may play well in a big outdoor stadium - but it just bounces around in an indoor venue.Maybe what Mr. Dorritie was saying is that corps would sound better if they were not amp'd so much and so badly. In fact there was just as much 'real estate' in the article on that subject "“Levels and EQ for amplified sound need to be optimized for Lucas Oil Stadium, as in any professional concert situation.” What a concept .... 'drum corps un-plugged' Of course that was overlooked as well as other aspects of the article so we could make a mountain of a molehill out of this one comment. He did not say 'unplugged'...he said ...“Levels and EQ for amplified sound need to be optimized Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euponitone Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) The venue will not change. DCI had no option to get out of LOS. The CORPS decided to move there and it was not a decision made lightly. Apparently so.... They are working to improve the situation. What do they gain by not doing anything? Remember DCI is the corps, it is not a separate entity! So if you are skeptical about DCI you are really doubting the corps as DCI is the corps!!!!! Yes, we are skeptical of the corps. Also, I dont think anyone is saying that DCI should be doing nothing. Most have been encouraged by the steps they are taking, but wonder if it will be enough Corps can adjust to improve the situation. Of course they can. Drum Corps are tough entities. You could tell them to design a show around mary had a little lamb, and most of them would probably figure out a pretty cool concept. That doesnt mean that artificially handicapping them for THIS reason is a good, or even the most ideal solution All of this complaining does nothing to fix the situation. If you do not want to spend your money, then don't. Remember when you do this, you hurt the corps, not DCI. Once again: DCI IS THE CORPS!!!!! This BS again?? "IF you dont like it, dont spend your money....its ok ... BUT YOU HURT THE DRUM CORPS, AND THE KIDS!!!..YOU ******" sorry, but that gets real old, real quick Edited December 6, 2009 by euponitone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 (edited) The venue will not change. DCI had no option to get out of LOS. The CORPS decided to move there and it was not a decision made lightly.They are working to improve the situation. What do they gain by not doing anything? Remember DCI is the corps, it is not a separate entity! So if you are skeptical about DCI you are really doubting the corps as DCI is the corps!!!!! Corps can adjust to improve the situation. All of this complaining does nothing to fix the situation. If you do not want to spend your money, then don't. Remember when you do this, you hurt the corps, not DCI. Once again: DCI IS THE CORPS!!!!! Please correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the current leadership structure require a corps to be a semifinalist for x number of years before a group even gets a vote? Regardless of the specifics, I am under the impression that not all corps are involved in the decision making for DCI. I could be wrong. One thing I will not stand for is that my views "hurt the corps." I still plan to see plenty of DCI this summer, and my hometown will be hosting a regional for the first time- without a dome or roof. One venue I refuse to pay money to attend anymore is LOS. If DCI/the corps made that decision, then they need to live with the results of that decision: some fans will like it and others wont. If finals attendance starts slipping, I think it is not the fan's fault as you try to define it, it is DCI/the corps fault for making that decision. Seriously, who in their right mind signs a contract for a venue for 10 years before even testing it? According to what DCI said they had an option to back out after a year. Does that one go under the same column that LOS was designed for acoustics is under? In my opinion it was a stupid decision. It may have looked wonderful on paper, but it sure isn't in implementation. Edited December 6, 2009 by Jesse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puppet Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Nothing out side of perhaps opening the dome will improve the sound of LOS ... especially after an entire season outside. That said, it is, with practice, possible to gear up for an indoor performance. It would take time and that's just something current corps don't have. BITD - and I'm sure Mike D will agree, we had time to prepare for venues like Evening With The Corps at The Mosque Theater and Madison Square Garden and our instructors knew the perimeters of those places - thenwe worked on our outdoor show. Do not tell me that there are no indoor rehearsals during this current era and that the current electronic engineering crew don't think about these things. IMO, LOS is just a bad place to have a Drum Corps Competition ... there is just no way to get all those horns to rein it in after trying to blow the doors off the cars in the parking lot all season. But there ya go! We're contractually stuck with it. Allentown is the place to be to hear and even see real drum corps near the end of the season. One last thing ... if you can find the Fleetwood recordings of the VFW Nationals in McCormick Place (indoors!) You will hear what it can sound like indoors (given the time and technology of the time) and those recordings are awesome. Puppet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 THEY SHOULD BE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 That is a shock as you criticize DCI continually. If DCA is so great, why waste your time on the DCI forum? There is a DCA forum. DCI needs support. So many of the DCI detractors have failed to realize that DCI is not some controlling entity that RUNS DCI class corps. DCI IS THE CORPS!!!!!! If you pull your support, you are pulling it from the corps. If you criticise DCI, you are criticizing the corps themselves. The CORPS made the decision to move to Indy and LOS. This will not change. They are clearly trying to improve the situation. They are being more tranparent than ever. Look at the new column by Bob Jacobs. Lets work with them and continue to support them. If you can't do this, please just stay with DCA. Do you think I am happy with LOS? I am not, but I re-upped my Friends of DCI membership even though I didn't have the money. I would be there even if the sound degraded next year. I did stop attending DCI events for a few years. However, DCI did some things right IMO, and I started attending again. I would have been in Indy last year, but thanks to the economy and my employer closing, I had to sell my tickets. I am going this year, giving it the benefit of the doubt, but I am greatly concerned after last year. But...had you bothered to read, you'd see where I praised DCI, and Mr. Jacobs, for being upfront and open in discussing the issue. Guess you missed that right? All of us need to support the activity....the corps. I have called DCA out many times over the years. It helps if you know what you speak of when you accuse someone. It helps wipe some egg off the face. and yes I know DCI is the corps. But, remember, myself, like everyone else is a consumer. And if the product makes us unhappy...and being a consumer means the product is more than just the shows on the field.....the venue, the city, etc is ALSO part of the product...then yes, people SHOULD speak out, and did after last year. But see, those facts ruin your rant, because it shows you read what you want to bolster your arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 Sure can. Untrained sound techs, lack of communication up top, the wrong equipment...it's a long list :) ok....so....without blowing corps already stretched budgets, how do you propose fixing this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 6, 2009 Share Posted December 6, 2009 The venue will not change. DCI had no option to get out of LOS. The CORPS decided to move there and it was not a decision made lightly.Apparently so.... They are working to improve the situation. What do they gain by not doing anything? Remember DCI is the corps, it is not a separate entity! So if you are skeptical about DCI you are really doubting the corps as DCI is the corps!!!!! Yes, we are skeptical of the corps. Also, I dont think anyone is saying that DCI should be doing nothing. Most have been encouraged by the steps they are taking, but wonder if it will be enough Corps can adjust to improve the situation. Of course they can. Drum Corps are tough entities. You could tell them to design a show around mary had a little lamb, and most of them would probably figure out a pretty cool concept. That doesnt mean that artificially handicapping them for THIS reason is a good, or even the most ideal solution All of this complaining does nothing to fix the situation. If you do not want to spend your money, then don't. Remember when you do this, you hurt the corps, not DCI. Once again: DCI IS THE CORPS!!!!! This BS again?? "IF you dont like it, dont spend your money....its ok ... BUT YOU HURT THE DRUM CORPS, AND THE KIDS!!!..YOU ******" sorry, but that gets real old, real quick I like you more and more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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