Official DCP G7 Proposal Discussion Thread

[BigBadMadMan]

They can't help themselves, nor admit defeat in any way.

This, in my mind, pretty much sums up all the rule changes/"enhancements" in the last decade or so. "Need" and "want" are two very different things that should never be confused with one anther. I absolutely believe that none of these things needed to happen, but, as you said, they can't help themselves and are unwilling to admit if (that) they were wrong.

[Granny Smith]

I'm afraid (and highly convinced) that Dan A. has fallen on a sword, or had one shoved in his back, and is the fall guy here.

I think he's gone.

Granny said this would take something dramatic to begin to heal the rift. The first place to start is always the fall guy.

Unfortunately the fall guy is frequently the guy who did the right thing, tee'd-off everyone because of his dual mandate, and got caught in the middle.

The only hope for him now, IMO, is if the Phoenix of this mess needs a leader and if he's willing to take a pay cut.

If Acheson is out, I think he will be reinstated since that is very doable now that there has been a restructuring of the board.

This is a very precarious situation. On the one hand, IF the board were to reinstate him then I think that would be the final nail in the coffin between G7 and DCI. IF Acheson "falls on the sword" and accepts this, then perhaps...just maybe...G7 will come back to the table. The downside with that scenario is that it might appear as a victory (however hollow) for G7 and might embolden them.

[ShortAndFast]

I think it began a little more simple and less sinister to this extent: These corps were in collusion together to try and use their muscle to restructure DCI to some degree. It was a power grab no matter how they try and spin it. You don't vote out Acheson without it being about power.

When the other member corps heard about this and took dramatic steps to push back I think it took the G7 corps by surprise and all of a sudden they were humiliated. These guys thought they would flex a little and everybody would acquiesce to their wishes. They were wrong. Instantly they were on the outside looking in. Egos raged and it has become an instant crisis for an activity we all hold dear.

I've been around long enough to hear the truth in what you're saying! There are no shortage of egos in this activity, and it's pretty easy to imagine a board meeting spiraling out of control just as you describe.

I agree with you that this is about power - you wouldn't propose something like this if you didn't think you had the power to make it happen. But that's just reality - the G7 did and do wield a lot of power in DCI. I do not know any details of what happened with Dan Acheson, so I have no opinion of whether it was appropriate or not. Personally, I have a lot of respect for Dan, so I have to imagine he acted honorably through this whole situation.

Anyhow, I think you have to get beyond the drama, and ask why is there a crisis in the first place? Why did the full G7 want to make these changes? Why did they want to do it now? For me, it's hard to explain that as just egotism and greediness. As I said, many of these corps are great beneficiaries of the status quo - what was the compelling reason that made them want to change it?

Edited May 21, 2010 by ShortAndFast

[Plan9]

At this point a line has been drawn in the sand, and I do not think the rift between the G6 (or is it G7 or G6.5 or whatever) and the rest of DCI will be healed unless something drastic happens.

Right now, as it stands, Pride (the bad kind) has a very tight grip and I don't see these guys coming back into the fold after 2010.

Honestly, about the only thing I can think of (in my shriveled old brain) to help resolve this would be for alumni en masse to pressure them to reconsider their decisions. Donors will have to stand up to the split. Right now, this group has the means and the drive to launch out on their own and it appears as though they will. The unexpected push back from the other member corps was a huge blow to these guys and to their egos.

What we are looking at here folks is not the fuzzy sweet spin that the G7 corps have put on this, but a permanent fissure between DCI, it's member corps, and these elite corps.

Not really sure anyone can say that at this point. I'm not accusing you personally Granny, but there is a sense of "we've been waiting for this from these SOB's, and here it comes" in the air on DCP. Of course there is always a chance that some of the predictions from the peanut gallery here will come to fruition, but it almost seems that many on this thread are "willing" it to happen, like "the downers" on SNL. In any high powered debate/discussion there are places where each side squares off, plants their feet and waits for the other side to blink. I think we're there! It's just a place in the discussion and nothing more. Egos...yes; decisions made despite bad business impact...I don't think so, not this group. My guess is that Mason and some of the other 16 will find a middle ground that makes good business sense to all. And the reality of the unthinkable will lead each side to seek their "better angels".

One interesting side note that you may have a thought on...Now that Mason and Co are back and working on what (I'm sure) they hope will be a triumphant return with a legendary corps, what do you think they make of all this? Afterall, he was the rebel that broke away and flew in the face of the norm.

One last note: As has been pointed out so often here on DCP.... DCI is really nothing more than a marketing company. So, if you're a business and your marketing company (and by extension, its CEO) are failing to "see" or offer an idea of where the market is heading, you lose faith in them and eventually hire someone else. Happens everyday. And make no mistake, the corps are the owners and DCI is the hired help!

In any case, my guess is that you won't be on George's "dance card" at finals this year!

[brians]

I've been around long enough to hear the truth in what you're saying! There are no shortage of egos in this activity, and it's pretty easy to imagine a board meeting spiraling out of control just as you describe.

I agree with you that this is about power - you wouldn't propose something like this if you didn't think you had the power to make it happen. But that's just reality - the G7 did and do wield a lot of power in DCI. I do not know any details of what happened with Dan Acheson, so I have no opinion of whether it was appropriate or not. Personally, I have a lot of respect for Dan, so I have to imagine he acted honorably through this whole situation.

Anyhow, I think you have to get beyond the drama, and ask why is there a crisis in the first place? Why did the full G7 want to make these changes? Why did they want to do it now? For me, it's hard to explain that as just egotism and greediness. As I said, many of these corps are great beneficiaries of the status quo - what was the compelling reason that made them want to change it?

Because the status quo is changing, ie.... G7 coprs may be challenged by traditionally lower placing or new corps, and they dont want to take the chance they would slip. This solidifies thier position, status, recruiting potential, money, power etc...

[Granny Smith]

I've been around long enough to hear the truth in what you're saying! There are no shortage of egos in this activity, and it's pretty easy to imagine a board meeting spiraling out of control just as you describe.

I agree with you that this is about power - you wouldn't propose something like this if you didn't think you had the power to make it happen. But that's just reality - the G7 did and do wield a lot of power in DCI. I do not know any details of what happened with Dan Acheson, so I have no opinion of whether it was appropriate or not.

Anyhow, I think you have to get beyond the drama, and ask why is there a crisis in the first place? Why did the full G7 want to make these changes? Why did they want to do it now? For me, it's hard to explain that as just egotism and greediness. As I said, many of these corps are great beneficiaries of the status quo - what was the compelling reason that made them want to change it?

The power of an ego is sufficient enough to cause wars. Do not underestimate man's desire for power...even if that power is within an activity that the vast majority of people know nothing about. I have seen this and worse in little league meetings, school boards, etc. That is why I wrote a letter to them imploring them to remember their reason for being.

Are there nuanced details? Sure. In fact, I may even say that within all the mess are some valid ideas, but rest assured that this is about power.

A couple directors get together after a show and begin to commiserate with each other about how if DCI did things their way, then it would be so much better. That begins to grow and spread. Bitterness festers and soon enough there is a power grab. I have seen it many many many times in life. It happens at all levels.

Honestly, I'd rather see DCI go down in flames as a unified group than to see a split where egos got the better of individuals who were not good stewards with what they had been entrusted with.

[BigW]

The compelling reason- likely a fear they can't find enough kids talented enough who can afford to be in their corps.

And yes, egos are in play.

Yah know, the IRL/CART split over egos pretty much wrecked open wheel racing in the US over a tug of war over control, allowing a bunch what were thought of as a bunch of hicks and rednecks in big stupid cars to become more popular amongst race fans in the US because they simnply provided entertainment and good racing for the fans.

Hmm -- the comparisons of NASCAR before they took off to DCA at this point and open wheel racing in the US are interesting.... NASCAR had the smaller budgets, historically more regional but expanding, thought of by some as a decidedly inferior product....

The future could be really interesting.

[Fred Windish]

Fran, thanks for your thoughts.

I make no secret, I believe the future of this activity is indoors in large arenas, a controlled environment. That works much better, particularly if we hold dreams of mainstream television. What the Ambitious Seven proposes could lead to that. It will be a few years, but I'm certain that's where we need to be.

The forward potential of what we are doing now is VERY limited. It's a model that really has been failing in today's world.

I guess what I'm saying is, today's dilemma could lead to something that works on a more grand scale. Do we let it happen now, or maybe later?

[Granny Smith]

In any case, my guess is that you won't be on George's "dance card" at finals this year!

Ha! Thanks for the laugh. I did all I could to "will" them to the championship last year and was looking forward to that dance George promised me if they won.

I hope that you're right. I hope that this turns out to be a bunch of guys posturing and in the end everyone hugs. I'm just very skeptical of that. Should that happen then I will gladly accept a dance with George, but in the meantime if I see him I will have to take him out to the woodshed and try and straighten this mess up the old fashioned way.

[Plan9]

Ha! Thanks for the laugh. I did all I could to "will" them to the championship last year and was looking forward to that dance George promised me if they won.

I hope that you're right. I hope that this turns out to be a bunch of guys posturing and in the end everyone hugs. I'm just very skeptical of that. Should that happen then I will gladly accept a dance with George, but in the meantime if I see him I will have to take him out to the woodshed and try and straighten this mess up the old fashioned way.

Go, Granny , Go!