Incomplete Shows

[CloudHype]

I thought these shows featured "World Class" drum corps and I just see dirty drill, missed releases and drop weapons. Let's not pay a corps that can't hold a two step interval and cover a line.

I want a professional product!!!

Edited July 5, 2010 by CloudHype

[perc2100]

I thought these shows featured "World Class" drum corps and I just see dirty drill, missed releases and drop weapons. Let's not pay a corps that can't hold a two step interval and cover a line.

I want a professional product!!!

Awesome! Lucky for you, we have Broadway shows, local touring companies who produce traveling versions of Broadway shows, ballet, various symphonies, a few traditional brass bands, community concert bands (some of which are REALLY good), music groups of every genre you can possibly think of (rap, jazz, punk rock, country, salsa, etc), and professional concert percussion group (like Nexus), as well as solo musicians who perform just about every genre you can think of. Those (and others I'm not mentioning) are ALL professional groups. DCI is made up of music students who are by no means professional musicians, and the corps are by no means professional groups. If you honestly think you're going to a football stadium to see a professional product, then you are VERY ill informed with expectations that are so out of whack it's almost funny for me to even entertain. I know this thread is getting long, but if you just read the title, and the original post and starting voicing your naive opinion, I encourage you to go back and read the very valid reasons why some corps don't come out early with an incomplete and dirty product.

I am also entertaining the possibility that your post is sarcasm. If so, perhaps my reply will encourage others who honestly believe your ideals to read some of the replies for a better understanding of the realities of our activity.

[MikeD]

I think that the scores should be prorated. If you only have 80% of the show on the field, and the brass judge thinks you deserve a 15, the number you should get is 12. Then, corps like SCV can still come out with their incomplete shows, they will just finish behind Academy and PC until they get their act together.

Look at scores early and late season. What makes you think that the incomplete shows are not factored in to their scores, esp if partially performed (e.g. just the music, or no guard work)?

[MikeD]

Would an audience who pay full price expect to see a show on Broadway w/ the last act incomplete or not even attempted?

Broadway shows often open out of town, and undergo all sorts of changes. When they get to Broadway, they have a series of preview performances...at regular price, BTW...prior to the official opening. Also many changes during previews.

[Jeff Ream]

While i prefer to see flowers on the field in June, you can not fault the judges for the scores. They can only judge what us there.

Howver, bringing back undertone penalties might not be a bad thing

[MikeD]

If you're implying that the main reason for DCI's allegedly small audiences (which I personally don't buy into, and if DCI measures their ticket selling success by how many attend ALL of their sponsored shows, I think DCI would agree more with my assessment that attendance if OK) is due to corps not being done early, I think that's the least of the concern. I've been to plenty of early season shows in my area (So Cal), where audiences routinely see the same corps all of the time, every year, that were consistent sellouts or near sellouts.

Surf's show at TCNJ was a packed house...in June.

[CloudHype]

Awesome! Lucky for you, we have Broadway shows, local touring companies who produce traveling versions of Broadway shows, ballet, various symphonies, a few traditional brass bands, community concert bands (some of which are REALLY good), music groups of every genre you can possibly think of (rap, jazz, punk rock, country, salsa, etc), and professional concert percussion group (like Nexus), as well as solo musicians who perform just about every genre you can think of. Those (and others I'm not mentioning) are ALL professional groups. DCI is made up of music students who are by no means professional musicians, and the corps are by no means professional groups. If you honestly think you're going to a football stadium to see a professional product, then you are VERY ill informed with expectations that are so out of whack it's almost funny for me to even entertain. I know this thread is getting long, but if you just read the title, and the original post and starting voicing your naive opinion, I encourage you to go back and read the very valid reasons why some corps don't come out early with an incomplete and dirty product.

I am also entertaining the possibility that your post is sarcasm. If so, perhaps my reply will encourage others who honestly believe your ideals to read some of the replies for a better understanding of the realities of our activity.

It was indeed sarcasm.

[perc2100]

It was indeed sarcasm.

IN that case, kudos

[oldskl3rings]

You should read perc2100's post. The difference between his post and yours is that his actually makes sense and explains why some corps don't have a complete show by the first performance date. It made perfect sense to me. Maybe you could learn from it, too.

Well Buglebando it may be true that incomplete shows may have existed in the past, but corps were penalized for being unprepared. If a corps risked getting an opening score that was 10 to 15 points below their rival’s complete (even skeletal) show you can bet your boots everybody would be ready on opening day.

When I was in theater school, there was a philosophy that the opening night audience deserved no less a show than the closing night audience ...

Maybe it’s because I currently direct musical theatre that I share the same philosophy. I could never imagine going on stage before the show and announcing, “The final scene is a little weak, so we are going to not perform it tonight. Please purchase a ticket for tomorrow nights performance and it should be ready.”

Hopefully one day DCI will realize (before its too late) that drum corps is not about scores, staffs egos, intellectual shows, insane drills or even the members. DC is about the fans that buy the tickets, the DVDs, subscribe to online content, make donations and volunteer countless hours.

[TrumpetJ]

First, lol at your opening sentence. Truly comical: kudos

For the incomplete show, at this point in my life/drum corps fandom I have been either going to, performing, teaching, or watching on Fan Network drum corps shows for almost twenty years. In that time, I have ALWAYS known that if you see a show in June, it will be either incomplete (missing the last number, phrase, or drill) or a bare skeleton of what it will be. There is very rarely a finished guard book. After the first couple of years of going to shows, when I transitioned from going to just the local show(s) to traveling to big regional shows and bigger shows out of my area, it became very obvious that shows change drastically between early July - early August, so even if a show is apparently done on, say, July 10th it will be significantly different August 5th. Entire tunes are dropped, drill is radically changed, songs are reworked to maximize effect, visual tweaks occur to better convey ideas, etc. Heck, does anyone know the actual number of endings Cadets went through in 1995 (I would bet it was at least half a dozen)?! Heck, I remember when it was fairly common to see members in full uniform with their horns or drums standing at attention at the front sideline because they hadn't learned drill yet due to one reason or another (joined the corps late to fill a hole, moved in late due to school obligations, etc).

So what I'm saying is that 'incomplete' shows are absolutely nothing new, and have been going on at least as far back as when the current age-out class were toddlers (and some rookies weren't born yet).

In regards to the common argument " With the alleged better talent in contemporary drum corps, why aren't these superstars capable of a 10 minute show by mid-June?" Obviously for the majority of corps, most of the winter camps focus on music and technique. The early winter camps focus on playing technique, interpretation, breathing exercises, chop building, and "throw-away" charts so the staff can learn how quickly the corps learns music and what difficulty the members can handle. The later winter/early spring camps are learned learning/perfecting show music (obviously it doesn't matter how much drill you learn, if a member isn't confident with their music you're wasting time 'forcing' them to learn drill and risk information overload). For visual blocks at camps, for most corps I would bet that the staff is focused on perfecting marching technique, working on basics and endurance, and teaching members how to read/learn drill in the style the staff teaches. I know of at least one corps who won multiple championships this past decade (and multiple visual captions) where the staff didn't want to spend time learning show drill because the members wouldn't necessarily retain the information: music can be practiced every day in order to learn "muscle memory" of the music, while drill can't really be practiced in between camps unless all of the members have access to a football field. The staff focuses instead of making sure every member is very well versed in the marching technique, and they are confident learning drill (for example, unless a rookie comes from a high school/college that teachers the exact drill-learning technique as Cavaliers, it takes a bit of time to learn "the system"). Then, as soon as the corps moves in vis blocks focus on learning the drill. At this point, teaching/learning drill can be a very proficient process, and staff/members don't need to worry about learning technique or dill learning style and can instead focusing on building on those skills and learning drill. I'm told this method works very well, even if the end result often yields an incomplete show for the first week or so of performances.

Also, keep in mind that "the alleged better talent" of the modern drum corps "superstars" also results in a SIGNIFICANTLY more difficult music and visual program than twenty years ago. It's not uncommon for corps to have over 200 pages of drill, and drill moves can often consist of four, two, or even one count. Harder/more complicated drill = more time to learn = more time to get proficient enough to perform. No staff wants their corps to go out and fall apart the last 45 seconds just to march a complete show: scores seem to reinforce that it's not how many minutes you perform, it's how clean the show is/how effective the show is that gets the better score.

Would I like to see everyone come out with a full show from the get go? Of course. But reality doesn't bear out our wish. Understanding that, I don't have a problem with SCV (or others) coming out minus their closer for a few weeks. In this day and age of incredible technology, people without the luxury of of shows in their area/region all summer long can now watch their favorite corps progress via Fan Network or YouTube or wherever else.

This^^^

DC is about the fans that buy the tickets, the DVDs, subscribe to online content, make donations and volunteer countless hours.

The fans would also put on a WTF face when the first three pieces of a show go really well, then the last three minutes are a disaster because the corps caved under the demands of a few cranky people and put out a show that was "done" in time to be overhauled two months later.