Minneapolis Corps Directors Meeting

[Jeff Ream]

And color. I believe this is called "style". Suggest you look into it and consider developing your own.

style can also be called condescending.

[Jeff Ream]

I st

Me thinks you (and a few others) are yet unable to step far enough back in order to see the bigger picture contained in the G7 proposal.

Your "fans" are the tiny group of existing DC fans --the 1800, that show up at places like Allentown, and continue to provide the chump change (God bless them!) to keep the activity limping along. They're not clamoring for anything because either they don't know any better or they are brainwashed or have a vested interest as you might.

IN the new model, I'm not talking about those "traditional" fans. I'm interested --as I believe the G7 leadership is-- in cultivating a NEW wider audience that will number in the hundreds of thousands --just as Cirque du Soleil did. They will not be relying on the "Ringling and Shrine" core audience --so to speak, of DC. Therefore, competitive SCORES will not be all that important. Will they use some sort of scoring system? Maybe! Perhaps they will let the crowd use their cellphones to vote. Who knows? It doesn't matter now and it will matter less then. ONCE AGAIN, TRY TO THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX.

Will traditional, existing DC fans follow the G7 corps over to view their SPECTACULARS? Sure, some will. If for no other reason than curiosity. But DCI shows will still exist with their traditional 30+ categories of meaningless scorekeeping --for a few years until it starts to crumble, simplify or condense. As I wrote elsewhere, by then, there might be a demand for a G14 or G21.

BRASSO the word "exhibition" that you find so offensive is the one that I find so humorous because 90% of the kids stepping on the field every night CURRENTLY understand that they are in exhibition and have little chance of winning because despite whatever they are able to do, the rules and regs and instruction they have been given will PREVENT them from doing so. They are boxed in and over time, they've come to understand that they are surrounded by a pre-set of phoney baloney rules to keep them under a form of double secret probation. Meanwhile, as they travel the country, they also see BD keep winning and yet they see Madison and Cavies and Crown get the biggest ovations in city after city. You can't fool them forever just as you can't keep telling everyone on here that BLAST was a tremendous success because some people who read this actually saw it, while others have spent time in Branson, Missouri!

And consider that "manage the judges" just might TRANSLATE to mean eliminate the judges or "fix the judges" or the scores or the scoring process BECAUSE IT IS MEANINGLESS IN THE END which is what many think of it currently. You defend it vigorously and this my friend is an argument that you would lose in open court.

As for getting sidetracked in this discussion, might I suggest trying to get out of the oldtyme trench you're in and come up for a little fresh air and sunlight. DON'T INTERPRET THE ORIGINAL (NOW STALE) PROPOSAL SO LITERALLY. It was a starting point to bring the issue to the forefront and get the ball rolling and ignite the discussion. It has already evolved several times, you can count on it. Plus, so much has been written and analysis continues here and elsewhere 24/7 --so how can any of us keep current with a moving target? To begin with, try reading between the lines of their proposal just a little. Let your imaginaton fly. I think you've inhaled a few too many diesel fumes. Nevertheless, BRASSO, I hope you understood the main message and have interpretted it correctly. As mobrien and others have pointed out, it is a call for help. More money is needed if the activity is to survive . . . particularly among the upper tier of performing units. Expenses and debt are rising faster than revenue. Anyone with a glimpse at financials could understand this. When I first learned of the performance fees, I was astounded at how little they were. I can't imagine how these corps can make a go of it, so this call for help does not surprise me in the least.

Imagine taking a sharp sabre and slicing off the top 1/3rd of the stack of drum corps and you end up with the combined talent and resources of the top 7 drum corps at your disposal, with no pre-conceived rules or commitments for the summer of 2011. Start making lists of pros and cons, plus and minus. What could you do with it to MAXIMIZE the potential that you have inherited? That is how I view what might have happened here and I think this may have guided the leadership of G7 corps and led to their initial proposal. Think of it as a "wish-list." I think they took a serious multi-level look into their future, --INCLUDING A SERIOUS REVIEW OF SELF-INFLICTED MISTAKES FROM THEIR PAST-- and saw a bleak outlook, then started to consider options. This was one.

And BTW, I know it is easy to be critical but I find it cowardly to attack honesty.

I stopped after your first sentence. why? because that's the funniest, yet saddest thing you have said yet.

this proposal is about getting 7 corps more power and more pay. that's it. the rest is fluff to cover that up.

[atlvalet]

Until you make drum corps "cool," the wider audience is a pipe dream. And considering the person who created the proposal (or at least wrote the Power Point) came up with narration and Jeffery (which are the antithesis of cool), good luck with that endeavor.

I do "cool" for a living. You need to put drum corps in clubs (drumlines supporting live DJ's) or with hip-hop dancers or something like that and convince people it's cool. George Hopkins is no Guy Laliberté. In that regard, the emperor has no clothes.

[JimF-LowBari]

BRASSO the word "exhibition" that you find so offensive is the one that I find so humorous because 90% of the kids stepping on the field every night CURRENTLY understand that they are in exhibition and have little chance of winning because despite whatever they are able to do, the rules and regs and instruction they have been given will PREVENT them from doing so.

So it's exhibition if a corps knows it's not going to win? Hell been thru that enough times, including an entire year when we knew we were the designated last place corps in a rebuilding year. Even knowing we'd be the first corps announced at retreat we still had our own competition to improve on the score the week before or improve our show from the last time.

LOL, I work with computer programs and live near the PA Dutch country. Not much in the way of Kings English either way.

[garfield]

Me thinks you (and a few others) are yet unable to step far enough back in order to see the bigger picture contained in the G7 proposal.

Your "fans" are the tiny group...SNIP

I think George Hopkins' greatest asset is to type in the third person, and the adept use of "they", and "them".

Thanks for the missive, "Mr. Zing". You present some interesting points and I'm interested in knowing if you're open to challenge of your assumptions.

If you're committed to what you say here and can't see any alternatives to your thinking, then I'll go re-read Glenn Beck's "Arguing with Idiots" and chuckle myself to sleep instead of replying.

If the challenge of your thoughts is intriguing to you then I'd love to reply in more detail.

BTW, I didn't know you are divorced! Me, too, with a son about your daughter's age. Glad she's adjusted and had a great life in corps! Hope she stays as involved as her Dad!

[atlvalet]

Now this REALLY is an interesting comment BECAUSE the answer is YES! clearly the NFL fan DOES know the meaning of the word competition vs. exhibition and the NFL knows this meaning better than anyone. That is because the NFL product is all about competition. NOT because their product is all about their game but because it is all about BETTING/WAGERING. It's not all about the FANS. It's all about the point spread and the amount of money wagered. That should be the REAL quote. The NBA lost $400 million this past season and 18 teams lost money. Do you know why they lost money? The NFL did not lose money. Think about it and have your paper turned in by Monday morning.

The same is not true about other facets of entertainment including drum corps. We don't talk about the violin section of the Philadelphia Orchestra scoring higher tonight vs. that of the Boston Symphony in their Summer Pops Concert at Tanglewood. Or the Ringling Bros. Clowns are going to be up 3/10ths on the Cincinnati Shriners Clowns at the Garden. The only place where there seems to be this phoney sense of a competition is wherever there is an actual gambling point spread and on fake productions like America's Got Talent, American Idol, the gay Brit judge Dance Shows and DCI.

Of course I know that the average guy on the street won't know the term G7 or what it means. I don't expect them to. Just like they had not heard of Cirque du Soleil before the 1990's. I expect that if drum corps is to succeed at the next level as a SUPER-DOOPER STADIUM SHOW, it will need to create it's own new identity to draw and build fans and an audience of new fans more interested in the total entertainment experience and not the traditional unintelligible FAUX "competition."

The NFL did not lose money because they know how to market themselves (something the G7 have shown they haven't a clue how to do, given DCI's losing its customer base). The person who created Jeffrey hasn't a clue how to market anything that isn't cheesy and/or annoying.

[Martin I. Zing]

Until you make drum corps "cool," the wider audience is a pipe dream. And considering the person who created the proposal (or at least wrote the Power Point) came up with narration and Jeffery (which are the antithesis of cool), good luck with that endeavor.

I do "cool" for a living. You need to put drum corps in clubs (drumlines supporting live DJ's) or with hip-hop dancers or something like that and convince people it's cool. George Hopkins is no Guy Laliberté. In that regard, the emperor has no clothes.

I really enjoyed your post ativalet and I agree with most of what you said. Personally I've met Guy Laliberté and I find him neither cool nor all that creative. Perverse is the first word that comes to mind actually. I happen to think he is the luckiest man in the universe. However he has made far more "right" guesses than "wrong" ones. And he has the luck or the skill to surround himself with extremely talented people and at the same time has been able to rid himself of others who might have hindered his forward progress. Have you read the tell-all book?

I've never met Mr. Hopkins. And I know little about him other than he appears to have garnered or earned a disproportionate amount of power and influence. I know he has fans and detractors and they are vocal. I can't judge the overall totality of his leadership other than to say if he is the Pied Piper, he has had help. I can't believe that leadership of 6 other corps would blindly follow him hypnotically down the wrong path. I'm not a Cadets fan. I'm not a woodwind fan. But I AM a drum corps fan. I think the better ideas and proven leadership will come from the top and I'm willing to go along with what is necessary to make the G7 healthy again in order to move the activity to a wider audience. I believe that it is absolutely necessary to repackage and expose the product to hundreds of thousands of new fans or else it will fade and vanish as we know and love it. That is why I'm willing to give the G7 plan or a version thereof a serious reading and try.

[GMichael1230]

Why are you guys engaging with this being ?? I guess its good for a laugh.

G

[scsudrummer]

I think the better ideas and proven leadership will come from the top and I'm willing to go along with what is necessary to make the G7 healthy again in order to move the activity to a wider audience. I believe that it is absolutely necessary to repackage and expose the product to hundreds of thousands of new fans or else it will fade and vanish as we know and love it. That is why I'm willing to give the G7 plan or a version thereof a serious reading and try.

This has already been said..but uh..drum corps will fade and vanish if you allow seven corps to essentially separate themselves from DCI and do their own thing. From what I've seen, G-7 isn't going to promote DCI or the activity, G-7 is going to promote the Cadets or BD or the Cavaliers. I may not have been involved in corps for decades, but I do know that with the number of junior corps in North America, seperating them and creating more division in the activity is only going to cause a slow death for drum corps.

Just my $.02.

[Martin I. Zing]

I think that you would be a more interesting troll if you displayed even a little knowledge of the last couple decades of DCI. If you believe your own assessment of the state of DCI, which corps have lead the way in this style of show design? Which ones have proposed and voted for the judging system you dislike?

If I may restate your views: you believe that judging rewards esoteric material over popular material, that the Madison Scouts are awesome and entertaining, and that drum corps is losing its audience. Yet you seem to have uncritically swallowed a proposal to kick out the Madison Scouts, to present only the corps the judges currently have on top, and to ignore the current audience in favor of a scholastic one.

Why are you a G7 supporter? Have you even read their proposal?

I think you don't have a clue as to what I am suggesting. If you had the time to review all my postings --I know, I know . . . take a week off from the day job; you would have a better understanding of what I think the G7 is hoping to do, for the good of the drum corps activity.

In a nutshell they are attempting to introduce a hybrid version of your favorite activity to hundreds of thousands of NEW fans --mostly located in major stadiums, and in major markets on weekends in an attempt to make more money for themselves to improve their financial health. The product that they will "build" will be more entertaining than the existing DCI product and it will contain elements of both tradition and also have a certain cutting edge that is yet to be determined. And who is included and what the final format looks like is not yet cast in concrete, so there is no "kicking out " or "ignoring" of anyone or choosing one audience over another because they are thought to be "scholastic". Are you hallucinating?

The proposal was first created to pinpoint an issue and float a possible solution for a growing and serious problem. But I guess it is only natural to have caused the "sky is falling contingent" to come running out of their chicken coops. The danger is real. G7 corps (and others) are not seeing the financial growth needed to sustain operating expenses and debt. And I'm sure you're right. G7 corps made mistakes in the past decades. And guess what? They know it! They want to right their wrongs. Would you prefer a public lynching? Nap time again.