Minneapolis Corps Directors Meeting

[ShortAndFast]

Let's back it up here. Wasn't that magical show in Allentown, the one that drew 1800, SUPPOSED to be a prototype of this new Cirque du Drum Corps show that was supposed to draw in the hundreds of thousands???

I may be crazy, but I think the upcoming "actual drum corps show" in Allentown will draw a few more than 1800.

The C3 shows certainly should have served as a bit of a caution that the drawing power of the G7 may not be all they think it is, especially when compared to the 8K-12K of actual DCI regionals. OTOH, if you had a C3 show the day after East, it would draw better than 1800 - the G7, like everybody else, have a much more compelling product in August than they do in mid-June.

[michsta8]

Been thinking about the G7 thing recently... Let the 7 go, combine the remaining World Class and Open Class corps, remove synths and electronics and let's have DRUM CORPS. Plenty of old time corps left like Boston, Madison, Spirit, Blue Stars, Troopers to mix in with the new guys. Over time, those corps will progress and raise there level of performance. I don't like the direction of the activity today anyway, so let them go.

Agree

[Jeff Ream]

I have, admittedly, selected a few choice quotes:

Let's back it up here. Wasn't that magical show in Allentown, the one that drew 1800, SUPPOSED to be a prototype of this new Cirque du Drum Corps show that was supposed to draw in the hundreds of thousands???

I may be crazy, but I think the upcoming "actual drum corps show" in Allentown will draw a few more than 1800.

Hint: I'm not crazy.

win

[moBetter]

not quite, but if it helps you feel better assume 40k. i'd say it's half of that

Alright, the Cotton Bowl seats 92,100. The entire home side, bottom and top were full. You do the math....This is easy enough to confirm, just watch the video...oh yeah, I forgot, you obviously commented on something you knew nothing about....

[garfield]

Exactly. With the existing rules why is a parade with more than two corps OK, but another "event" with more than two corps is not? If a corps wants to devote time to combined corps events outside of DCI, let them. They may make more money, but my guess it will show competitively. If this was possible twenty years ago, we may still have Star around. What if they could have done Brass Theater and DCI? Then again maybe this would only postpone the departure of some corps. If a corps does 4 non-DCI events next year and they make more money, but drop in placement - they may have to decide what is more important. The staff might get paid more and member fees might decrease and that may be an acceptable trade-off for a lower placement. But regardless, that should be their decision to make.

This whole part of this thread is wrong on a couple of accounts. First, taken to it's final extrme, the idea of allowing corps to hold events outside of DCI will result in DCI being cut out of all corps activities. Starving DCI of event revenues doesn't do the activity any good at all, and destroys the "brotherhood" concept envisioned by the Combine founders and all member corps since. It's wrong on all accords simply because of that fact.

Secondly, the rules are specific: no corps can be involved in any activity that appears in competition with DCI (remember, the director/members WROTE these rules themselves). A parade does not compete with what DCI does so even ten corps in a parade is not problem even if the corps are paid. But a contest, an exhibition, and "event" where two or more DCI members are participating is strictly prohibited by the by-laws.

Also, corps may not issue any sort of audio/video release that contains more than one corps. The by-laws on A/V rights specifically addresses this issue.

Abiding by these rules is a part of being a member in DCI. Members can go off and develop their own contest and events if they renounce that membership but, in doing so, they also renounce any claim to the benefits of being a DCI member such as access to the tour event schedule, any audio/video rights for past shows or events, housing cost benefits, travel allowances, organized adjudication, etc.

They also cannot suggest they be allowed to do their own thing and claim the benefits of DCI when they're not doing their own thing. In other words, they can't have their cake and eat it, too.

Any talk of corps being able to produce their own shows and events outside of DCI while remaining members of DCI is asking for both.

EDITED: So it didn't appear that I was attacking your post alone, DAvery

Edited August 5, 2010 by garfield

[garfield]

Alright, the Cotton Bowl seats 92,100. The entire home side, bottom and top were full. You do the math....This is easy enough to confirm, just watch the video...oh yeah, I forgot, you obviously commented on something you knew nothing about....

EDIT: BTW, I think it was closer to 40,000 than 20,000 but I'm terrible at judging crowds.

Edited August 5, 2010 by MikeN

[GUARDLING]

This thought is wrong on a couple of accounts. First, taken to it's final extrme, the idea of allowing corps to hold events outside of DCI will result in DCI being cut out of all corps activities. Starving DCI of event revenues doesn't do the activity any good at all, and destroys the "brotherhood" concept envisioned by the Combine founders and all member corps since. It's wrong on all accords simply because of that fact.

Secondly, the rules are specific: no corps can be involved in any activity that appears in competition with DCI (remember, the director/members WROTE these rules themselves). A parade does not compete with what DCI does so even ten corps in a parade is not problem even if the corps are paid. But a contest, an exhibition, and "event" where two or more DCI members are participating is strictly prohibited by the by-laws.

Also, corps may not issue any sort of audio/video release that contains more than one corps. The by-laws on A/V rights specifically addresses this issue.

Abiding by these rules is a part of being a member in DCI. Members can go off and develop their own contest and events if they renounce that membership but, in doing so, they also renounce any claim to the benefits of being a DCI member such as access to the tour event schedule, any audio/video rights for past shows or events, housing cost benefits, travel allowances, organized adjudication, etc.

They also cannot suggest they be allowed to do their own thing and claim the benefits of DCI when they're not doing their own thing. In other words, they can't have their cake and eat it, too.

Any talk of corps being able to produce their own shows and events outside of DCI while remaining members of DCI is asking for both.

WOW... I have such mixed feeling I guess on this whole thing. I totally get when DCI was formed and also the benefit of BIG BRother watching out , revenue, so on and so on But theres another side that tells me " This is my corps and should be able to do what I want " Remember the days of making our own decisions? Those traditions and practices that were sacred to us and NOT others? I do.

I don''t need a debate because I get it all and actually agree with the way it is but gezzz I also remember the freedom and yes the bad that went with it and choices without BIG BROTHER.

Maybe sounds to much like government to me sometimes..lol

[GMichael1230]

Alright, the Cotton Bowl seats 92,100. The entire home side, bottom and top were full. You do the math....This is easy enough to confirm, just watch the video...oh yeah, I forgot, you obviously commented on something you knew nothing about....

I know, I know..I was there, I can confirm, it wasnt 40,00 and the numbers were indeed talked about years ago maybe 25,000 but not 40,000.....

G

Edited August 5, 2010 by MikeN

[BOBSMYTH]

Alright, the Cotton Bowl seats 92,100. The entire home side, bottom and top were full. You do the math....This is easy enough to confirm, just watch the video...oh yeah, I forgot, you obviously commented on something you knew nothing about....

Before this goes too far:

92,200 is the current capacity of the Cotton Bowl.

The Cotton Bowl was expanded in a renovation that started in 2008 to its current capacity. The expansion was mostly about adding additional seats in the end zone area by adding a second level on both ends.

Prior to 2008 - say in 1991 - the capacity was 76,000.

When you calculate attendance you can't just take capacity and divide by 2. You have to subtract the back side and any end zone seats that would not normally be sold. "Concert Side" usually only runs to the end of the performance field - approximately 120 yards to the end lines of the each end zone - but it is highly dependent on the configuration of the stadium. In a full bowl such as the Cotton Bowl (as opposed to a classic horseshoe such as Camp Randall before it's recent renovations), somewhere between 60% - 70% cannot be used to calculate "Concert Side" capacity.

Doing the math - 76,000 total capacity times 35% usable Concert Side would give you an estimated capacity of 26,600 for the 1991 DCI Finals. You almost never sell 100% of capacity. Thus - best estimate for attendance - around 25,000.

[garfield]

Before this goes too far:

92,200 is the current capacity of the Cotton Bowl.

The Cotton Bowl was expanded in a renovation that started in 2008 to its current capacity. The expansion was mostly about adding additional seats in the end zone area by adding a second level on both ends.

Prior to 2008 - say in 1991 - the capacity was 76,000.

When you calculate attendance you can't just take capacity and divide by 2. You have to subtract the back side and any end zone seats that would not normally be sold. "Concert Side" usually only runs to the end of the performance field - approximately 120 yards to the end lines of the each end zone - but it is highly dependent on the configuration of the stadium. In a full bowl such as the Cotton Bowl (as opposed to a classic horseshoe such as Camp Randall before it's recent renovations), somewhere between 60% - 70% cannot be used to calculate "Concert Side" capacity.

Doing the math - 76,000 total capacity times 35% usable Concert Side would give you an estimated capacity of 26,600 for the 1991 DCI Finals. You almost never sell 100% of capacity. Thus - best estimate for attendance - around 25,000.

WHISTLE! Stop play. Ten yard penalty for using logic, another 5 yards for good research, and an additional 5 yards for good math skills. It's 1st and 30.

EDIT: for bad math. Ha!

(See, I AM really bad at judging crowds!)

Edited August 5, 2010 by garfield