corpsband Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 It should be noted that it's not just "clean" that matters, it's "knowing" the show in your bones and adding personal intensity. This allows the most important ingredient...fun. The thing that I get from the BD members is the confidence in knowing the show professionally and that they reach a level and start to have fun with it. This permits them to add, change and perform without the insane pressure of memorizing the formations and changing dot books. When it becomes that level of performance, clean is just a by-product. Without this level of comfort, late season changes will result in train wrecks. I really don't think that's unique to BD. I think many many member of many corps get unconscious with their show and can then have fun with it. I'm sure many FMM's here on DCP can confirm that. IMO the difference is that BD's rate of execution errors is so much lower when they get to that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruckner8 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 When a Corps scores a 98.125.... and another Corps scores a 98.100, no amount of fuzzy math can explain away that somehow the Corps that scored a 98.125 was (as you said ) " CLEARLY the better Corps on THAT NIGHT " over the Corps that scored a 98.100. Not with the judges anyway. And your " CI Theory " refers to scores and placements, and these things are put out by the judges, upon which your theory was formed. Keep trying to tweak that theory of yours, and watch out for that fuzzy math, as it can make things go out of wack for a theory faster than one can say " competitive inertia ". When I explain CI to the unwashed, and say it this way: "In order for [corps X] to [break CI], they'll have to be 2 points better to [win] by a tenth." That's what happened in 2008. PR was 2 points better, but BD had all of the CI going in. In times of CLEARLY BETTER, sometimes the smallest margin is all that's left when CI is so strong. Once again, 2008 adds credence to the HOW TO BREAK CI's GRIP (be 2 pts better to get a tenth) [which I don't talk about in the CI article, but I'm compelled to talk about it in my other life, away from this board.] The judges have to almost feel embarrassed sometimes, in order for things to change. The judges would've been embarrassed had PR not won in 2008. Lucky for them, PR was a former champion, so it's all good. Had PR been Bloo or Crown, it WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david.t Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I respect the talent, hard work, and dedication of everyone involved with the BD. They really put on a great show, but... We all see the unbelievable talent and the groundbreaking design, and that's what is so upsetting. They have all these resources and for the past four years failed to build an emotional connection with many of us. They keep getting edgier and edgier, but all I want is a show that will bring me goosebumps. Last night I felt that it was only their technical brilliance that was forcing me through the performance. Where's the passion? What happened to the godfathers and the spanish hearts? I would have no qualms about them having two undefeated season then. They, more that anyone else, needs to listen to DCI's new initiative to be more fan oriented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I respect the talent, hard work, and dedication of everyone involved with the BD. They really put on a great show, but...We all see the unbelievable talent and the groundbreaking design, and that's what is so upsetting. They have all these resources and for the past four years failed to build an emotional connection with many of us. They keep getting edgier and edgier, but all I want is a show that will bring me goosebumps. Last night I felt that it was only their technical brilliance that was forcing me through the performance. Where's the passion? What happened to the godfathers and the spanish hearts? I would have no qualms about them having two undefeated season then. They, more that anyone else, needs to listen to DCI's new initiative to be more fan oriented. Neither of us speak for anyone else, so if I were to say that I "felt the passion" since the first time I saw this show in Pleasant Hill, Ca, who is correct? This doesn't make your comments invalid by any means, but it points out that drum corps shows are in the eye of the beholder. And the fact that we are talking so much about BD is a function of the fact that they're winning consistently...move them down the tier and they will be a side note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plan9 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I really don't think that's unique to BD. I think many many member of many corps get unconscious with their show and can then have fun with it. I'm sure many FMM's here on DCP can confirm that. IMO the difference is that BD's rate of execution errors is so much lower when they get to that level. You make it sound so like their a bunch copy machines. I feel that all of the top tiers have extremely talented performers (they're extremely competitive for spots and that's the result). Having said that, if the show has not reached a comfort level by the time they start editing in the last few weeks they risk unfamiliarity and inability for "unconscious" performance. No one's better here, it just that BD has learned to pace themselves and not put their performers in that position...searching for the right ending or moment. Just look at PR 08 & PR 09, same pattern of change but one done methodically and the other in panic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobrien Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) That's what happened in 2008. PR was 2 points better.... PR had a very good finals performance, but the program design was relatively unsophisticated when compared to both BD and Cavaliers. Did they perform better than both that night? Yes. Did they perform 2 points better? Nope - they simply sold the judges what they had a little better than either of the other two. === Re the spreads between BD and the Other Four, Cavaliers have picked up .7 on BD in the last week, and should continue to nibble away at the lead over the next couple of weeks. Given how well BD had played the game from a design standpoint this year, I don't know if they can be beaten, but there'll be at least one other corps within .5 of them on Aug 14, and my guess is that they'll be wearing green. Edited July 23, 2010 by mobrien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRASSO Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (edited) When I explain CI to the unwashed, and say it this way: "In order for [corps X] to [break CI], they'll have to be 2 points better to [win] by a tenth."That's what happened in 2008. PR was 2 points better, but BD had all of the CI going in. In times of CLEARLY BETTER, sometimes the smallest margin is all that's left when CI is so strong. Once again, 2008 adds credence to the HOW TO BREAK CI's GRIP (be 2 pts better to get a tenth) [which I don't talk about in the CI article, but I'm compelled to talk about it in my other life, away from this board.] The judges have to almost feel embarrassed sometimes, in order for things to change. The judges would've been embarrassed had PR not won in 2008. Lucky for them, PR was a former champion, so it's all good. Had PR been Bloo or Crown, it WOULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED. I read your CI theory, on how judges appear unwilling to allow a Corps to win DCI unless somehow it was in the top 3 the year before... has to apparently earn their dues with the judging community, and blah blah blah. However, on July 19th, 2008, Phantom Regiment placed 4TH, several points off 1st place,( more than" 2 " pts here ).... 21 days later ( in the same year ) Phantom Regiment was crowned DCI Champion. The CI theory falls apart here. Also, one can not claim that .... "well, Phantom is an icon Corps, won it before, and thus judges could see fit to see that rise within 3 weeks time". If this was the case, then the judges likewise would have seen fit to NOT " see " Phantom as a Corps that could have plummeted in their eyes one year later to 9th place after winning it all the year before. In order for the CI theory to work, it would need to apply to the UPWARD move of a Corps every much as the DOWNWARD curve movement. It is the theory that needs to be scrubbed clean here, not the posters, as this CI theory of yours ( while intriguing ) doesn't pass the smell test, imo. Edited July 23, 2010 by BRASSO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevingamin Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I read your CI theory, on how judges appear unwilling to allow a Corps to win DCI unless somehow it was in the top 3 the year before... You read wrong. The corps has to place in the Top 3 in ANY PREVIOUS YEAR, not specifically the year before. Phantom had numerous 2nd and 3rd place finishes prior to winning it in 1996, not to mention 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerseyboy Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Teal took a hit tonight Pioneer , Teal , Crossmen , Colts ALL 2 points too low in Dallas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geluf Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Pioneer , Teal , Crossmen , Colts ALL 2 points too low in Dallas. Where would you have added those two points? Scores are a function of adding 8 captions together. Not of looking at a show and saying "eh...83.5" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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