Why is DCI so unknown by almost everyone?

[DrillmanSop06]

Good to know there were whinosaurs back then too! :D

[Stu]

DCI has chosen a sort of Pay per view for Prelims... at the theater. Why the theater? Nobody can DVR or TVO the broadcast at home and burn it to a DVD thereby usurping the purchase of a DCI DVD. Smart on the part of DCI; but the question is, does DCI make money or lose money on the prelims theater simulcast?

[N.E. Brigand]

If anything, the situation is even worse than the mid-90's, when this book was written.

2002, actually.

I have to say this to GH, in response to his comments from 1985: you were wrong. Fans don't want to you to "expand their horizons", or "broaden their horizons", George. I like my horizons just fine, thank you very much. I may be an ignoramus and knuckle-dragger from the "fly-over states", but I still support this activity, and want it to survive. If you continue to take drum corps in the direction that you have been leading it for 20+ years, it may end up in oblivion.

Won't Hopkins retort that fans now look back very fondly to the Cadets' 1985 show, and think highly of most of what the 1985, 1991, and 1993 audience was complaining about? Don't most people today love Star's championship show, that according to the article was booed at the time?

[AmFlag61]

Fast forward to Finals 2010. BD performs an impeccable show on the field - executed and played flawlessly. They receive several perfect 10's on the judges' sheets. Yet they are booed by many in audience at the retreat, after Crocker announces that they have won. How is that even possible? That is almost inconceivable.

Surely some of the booing came from those who are jealous of BD's success; many are no doubt envious of their triumphs over the years. But certainly some fans were booing, because they didn't like the entertainment value of what they just saw. They can appreciate the artistry, but the miss the entertainment level that BD used to produce. If anything, the situation is even worse than the mid-90's, when this book was written.

Conversely, Madison shows up this year with an old-school show, with traditional music and design. They finish 10th, but get several standing ovations at Finals. Seemingly, Komnick and Mason are the only ones who get it. Fans want entertaining shows, and are willing to pay for it. Artistry is great, but it is not substitute for entertainment value, bottom line.

I have to say this to GH, in response to his comments from 1985: you were wrong. Fans don't want to you to "expand their horizons", or "broaden their horizons", George. I like my horizons just fine, thank you very much. I may be an ignoramus and knuckle-dragger from the "fly-over states", but I still support this activity, and want it to survive. If you continue to take drum corps in the direction that you have been leading it for 20+ years, it may end up in oblivion.

Anyone who has been bored enough to follow my occasional Rants knows I have not been a big fan of Mr. Hopkins. In all fairness, however, I must say that he seems to sincerely believe in his "Vision" of the future. Many of us don't share that vision and openly disagree with it (virulently in my case). So I totally agree with the statement that Fans don't come to DC shows to be "educated" or to have their "horizons" expanded. Fans, as opposed to Supporters, WANT TO BE ENTERTAINED.

If you doubt this go check out the 2008 DCI Championships when the Cavalier Anniversary Corps "888" appeared in Exhibition. In what was the 60th Anniversary of The Cavaliers, these Alumni reprised many signature Cavaliers pieces. Crowd reaction? Multiple and often sustained "Standing Os". And this in a year when "Spartacus" battled the "Samurai" in what has to be the greatest theatrical showdown in DCI History. 888 were not competing - they were performing a salute to not only the Traditions & History of the Green Machine, but to everything Drum Corps once was about. AND THE FANS LOVED IT! They were not being educated, brought up-to-date, or having their horizons expanded. They were being entertained and having fun as well.

And as someone much wiser than I has said, "Want Entertainment? DCA". We are never going to get those non-affiliated Fans back until we can guarantee them an evening of Entertainment & Fun! For education, they already have Community Colleges.

"Fans want entertaining shows, and are willing to pay for it." Has anyone ever stated this more clearly? IMO, No!

Consider this scenario; a family in Corpstown, USA

Dad: We're late, Dear, where are the kids?

Mom(shouting): Randy, Brandy! Get down here, we have to leave now!

Kids (whining): Maaa, why do we have to go to this dumb thing?

Mom: It's for your own good! Your horizons are limited and that nice Mr. Hopkins has offered to expand them.

Dad (whispering): And ours as well.

Mom (replying in a whisper) Thank God Drum Corps have visionaries like George! Without him we'd be subjected to still another Evening of Entertainment!

Dad (sotto voce): Word!

Edited October 3, 2010 by AmFlag61

[Hrothgar15]

"Fans want entertaining shows, and are willing to pay for it." Has anyone ever stated this more clearly? IMO, No!

Yup. I would buy a $200 ticket to a local show featuring a handful of finalist corps in a heartbeat, if show designs and instrumentation were the same as they were in the late '80s and early '90s.

[garfield]

Good to know there were whinosaurs back then too! :D

Obviously, "whinosaurs" have been a part of every generation of drum corps, just as there have always been "fluff-a-teers" who want more Miley Cyrus - type shows and agnostics who have no opinions at all so long as they can cling to their righteous high-brow acceptance of any "advancements" as example of their superior interpretation of the activity and where it's going. This last group are usually the ones who proclaim, with noses high in the air, that the unwashed masses know little of actual performance art and should be ignored, chastised, and labeled with monikers that identify them as cretins, incapable of understanding the truly magnificent product put forth on the field today.

But the fact remains that the GH model of dragging the whinosaurs and knuckledraggers into the artsy-fartsy world of high-brow intellectual marching music has resulted in a follow-the-leader mentality that has pushed back wide enthusiasm of the product on the summer football field, and resulted in the declining interest and attendance that has been consistent for more than two decades. Witness the claim of the architect of high-brow artsy drum corps that the activity can't support itself now.

Despite the "follow-the-leader" mentality and the resultant growth of high-brow "performance art", much like mimes and "#### Christ" the activity is marginalized, ignored, and mostly ridiculed as worthy only of background noise during times better served for getting a hot dog and a beer.

Such is the result of ridiculing the whinosaurs and the great, unwashed masses by the nose-in-the-air crowd of agnostic know-it-alls.

Despite your ridicule of those who have promoted the activity for decades instead of years, it should be obvious to those truly honest with themselves that the agnostic high-brows have not been successful in dragging the masses into appreciation of artsy-fartsy marching performance.

Perhaps, just perhaps, more energy should be put into appealing to what the audience wants instead of wasting energy constructing condescending names for those who look at the activity with their noses not quite so high in the air.

But that would contradict the definition of "high-brow" now wouldn't it? And we all know that old habits are hard to break for both "whinosaurs" and high-brow "fluff-a-teers".

Edited October 3, 2010 by garfield

[fsubone]

Obviously, "whinosaurs" have been a part of every generation of drum corps, just as there have always been "fluff-a-teers" who want more Miley Cyrus - type shows and agnostics who have no opinions at all so long as they can cling to their righteous high-brow acceptance of any "advancements" as example of their superior interpretation of the activity and where it's going. This last group are usually the ones who proclaim, with noses high in the air, that the unwashed masses know little of actual performance art and should be ignored, chastised, and labeled with monikers that identify them as cretins, incapable of understanding the truly magnificent product put forth on the field today.

But the fact remains that the GH model of dragging the whinosaurs and knuckledraggers into the artsy-fartsy world of high-brow intellectual marching music has resulted in a follow-the-leader mentality that has pushed back wide enthusiasm of the product on the summer football field, and resulted in the declining interest and attendance that has been consistent for more than two decades. Witness the claim of the architect of high-brow artsy drum corps that the activity can't support itself now.

Despite the "follow-the-leader" mentality and the resultant growth of high-brow "performance art", much like mimes and "#### Christ" the activity is marginalized, ignored, and mostly ridiculed as worthy only of background noise during times better served for getting a hot dog and a beer.

Such is the result of ridiculing the whinosaurs and the great, unwashed masses by the nose-in-the-air crowd of agnostic know-it-alls.

Despite your ridicule of those who have promoted the activity for decades instead of years, it should be obvious to those truly honest with themselves that the agnostic high-brows have not been successful in dragging the masses into appreciation of artsy-fartsy marching performance.

Perhaps, just perhaps, more energy should be put into appealing to what the audience wants instead of wasting energy constructing condescending names for those who look at the activity with their noses not quite so high in the air.

How about you tell everyone how you really, really feel?

While I do get what you're saying, he was making a joke, not being condescending. But in turn of replying to him, you pretty much said that anyone who likes the advancements of the activity and the artsy way of drum corps are wrong, and are ruining it for the people who want it the way it once was. But part of what it comes down to is people trying to reclaim the DCI of the past, instead of looking to the future. In the days of 5-second attention spans, DCI needs to do everything it can to stay relevant to the band kids who will form the next generation of marchers, and it works both ways. We influence the marching band world, and they in turn influence us.

So, if all DCI fans get off the high horse a little bit, I think it could help our relevance. So many people have tried to turn DCI into this elitist group of only the best, and screw the marching band world, instead of working with it more to help get the exposure drum corps needs to survive in the future.

[oldschooldbc]

I really enjoyed watching Star's 1993 show. Drill design was impressive, color guard execution was flawless, and the show was impeccably marched. It was a bravissimo performance, and if you were involved in that organization, you should be proud of your accomplishments, even though you didn't come home with the gold medal from Jackson that night.

Would I pay to see that show again? Yes. Would I pay to see that show over and over and over again, on the same night? No, I would not.

Someone alluded to this in an earlier post. There used to be great variation in the product that the corps place on the field. There were tremendous contrasts in the styles used by the corps, both visually and musically. Fans could pick a corps they really liked, and identify with it.

Look at the top 5 finalists from 1980: BD, 27th, Bridgemen, SOA, Phantom. 5 very different corps with very different musical and visual approaches. If you didn't like what you just saw, for whatever reason, wait 15 minutes, and you will see something completely different, that is probaly just as good.

That has disappeared now. Today, every corps seems to want to re-create what Star did in 1993 - or improve on it. Unfortunately, after 2-3 hours of that, it gets redundant, redundant, redudant, redundant. Who really wants to pay for that? Regardless of the level of artistry or technical accomplishment, it will get boring. And people will leave - some will not come back.

Something that is boring and redundant is not entertaining. And no, people will not pay to see it, no matter how "artistic" or "technically brilliant" you think it is.

[AmFlag61]

Obviously, "whinosaurs" have been a part of every generation of drum corps, just as there have always been "fluff-a-teers" who want more Miley Cyrus - type shows and agnostics who have no opinions at all so long as they can cling to their righteous high-brow acceptance of any "advancements" as example of their superior interpretation of the activity and where it's going. This last group are usually the ones who proclaim, with noses high in the air, that the unwashed masses know little of actual performance art and should be ignored, chastised, and labeled with monikers that identify them as cretins, incapable of understanding the truly magnificent product put forth on the field today.

But the fact remains that the GH model of dragging the whinosaurs and knuckledraggers into the artsy-fartsy world of high-brow intellectual marching music has resulted in a follow-the-leader mentality that has pushed back wide enthusiasm of the product on the summer football field, and resulted in the declining interest and attendance that has been consistent for more than two decades. Witness the claim of the architect of high-brow artsy drum corps that the activity can't support itself now.

Despite the "follow-the-leader" mentality and the resultant growth of high-brow "performance art", much like mimes and "#### Christ" the activity is marginalized, ignored, and mostly ridiculed as worthy only of background noise during times better served for getting a hot dog and a beer.

Such is the result of ridiculing the whinosaurs and the great, unwashed masses by the nose-in-the-air crowd of agnostic know-it-alls.

Despite your ridicule of those who have promoted the activity for decades instead of years, it should be obvious to those truly honest with themselves that the agnostic high-brows have not been successful in dragging the masses into appreciation of artsy-fartsy marching performance.

Perhaps, just perhaps, more energy should be put into appealing to what the audience wants instead of wasting energy constructing condescending names for those who look at the activity with their noses not quite so high in the air.

But that would contradict the definition of "high-brow" now wouldn't it? And we all know that old habits are hard to break for both "whinosaurs" and high-brow "fluff-a-teers".

! I pray that someday I can approach your level of erudition! And while this Post has drawn many intelligent coherent, non-hostile Replies, only a few, like yours, shine forth like diamonds in a dung heap.

But then. I'm prejudiced. As a '50s-60s Chicago Cavalier how could I not admire any group or Individual bearing the proud name of...G A H F I E L D!"?

[fsubone]

Look at the top 5 finalists from 1980: BD, 27th, Bridgemen, SOA, Phantom. 5 very different corps with very different musical and visual approaches. If you didn't like what you just saw, for whatever reason, wait 15 minutes, and you will see something completely different, that is probaly just as good.

That is very true, but I do think we still see some of this today. I mean, you won't see as much of a contrast, which is kind of sad, you will still see a difference. Look at Finals from 2009. Top 5 corps, BD, Crown, Cadets, Cavaliers, SCV. All of these five had radically different show designs and styles. We had jazz, symphonic music, West Side Story, a mix of jazzy stuff and symphonic, and Appalachian Spring. You won't see a pop song winning a championship anymore, but I still think that you do see enough contrast in shows to keep things interesting.