G8

[GUARDLING]

When you say "corps" are you talking about the entire group within DCI or the individual units.

IMO, this isn't about the leaders of the individual corps doing what is best for DCI. It's those people seeing the (mostly money) mess and saying "G8 is what I need to do to save my own group". Remember the old 3 Stooges line "All for one, one for all.... and every man for himself". IMO, we're seeing the last 4 words of that quote.

And comparing the number of corps lost in the past to today one glaring thought hits me. If DCI loses the percentage of corps like was done 1972-2009 what would we have left? Two... maybe three....

Well, I'm sure it's not the entire group but enough of them or at least majority otherwise decisions and changes wouldn 't be passed. There are enough of the strong or as some call elite ( self proclaimed) that can sway as well as convince others to do things that maybe benefit a few in the long run. ( isn't that just like politics also...I think so.

[GUARDLING]

Well, I'm sure it's not the entire group but enough of them or at least majority otherwise decisions and changes wouldn 't be passed. There are enough of the strong or as some call elite ( self proclaimed) that can sway as well as convince others to do things that maybe benefit a few in the long run. ( isn't that just like politics also...I think so.

PS:

But you are right as far as if what happened in 72 happened now nothing but the select would be left.HMMMMM ..maybe thats the plan

[JimF-LowBari]

Well, I'm sure it's not the entire group but enough of them or at least majority otherwise decisions and changes wouldn 't be passed. There are enough of the strong or as some call elite ( self proclaimed) that can sway as well as convince others to do things that maybe benefit a few in the long run. ( isn't that just like politics also...I think so.

It's the "few" bit that worries me in DCI. We've lost so many corps that there are few competitions being presented within the two or so months of the season. Few years ago I predicted that in the future DCI would have just enough corps (10-12) to have two full competitions. Each 5-6 corps group would travel together to save expenses and same 5-6 corps would be at each show. Then at mid-season the corps would be mixed so two different sets of 5-6 corps would travel together until Finals. The G8 bit actually fits into this as same group of corps doing shows. Difference is instead of a regular competition they would be doing "something" (not sure what yet) together.

Sitting on the sidelines it's just so #### interesting how the two circuits (DCA/DCI) have taken different approaches since 2002 (when I came back to DC) and where it has lead them.

Edit: Replying to your last post that I just saw: That's how I'm seeing it too. In that case, the G8 are vastly more concerned about the welfare of their own corpa than they are about the welfare of Junior corps (DCI) as a whole. Yeah does sound like politics, just substitue Rep/Dem for "own corps" and country instead of DCI.

Edited December 10, 2010 by JimF-LowBari

[Jeff Ream]

It's the "few" bit that worries me in DCI. We've lost so many corps that there are few competitions being presented within the two or so months of the season. Few years ago I predicted that in the future DCI would have just enough corps (10-12) to have two full competitions. Each 5-6 corps group would travel together to save expenses and same 5-6 corps would be at each show. Then at mid-season the corps would be mixed so two different sets of 5-6 corps would travel together until Finals. The G8 bit actually fits into this as same group of corps doing shows. Difference is instead of a regular competition they would be doing "something" (not sure what yet) together.

Sitting on the sidelines it's just so #### interesting how the two circuits (DCA/DCI) have taken different approaches since 2002 (when I came back to DC) and where it has lead them.

Edit: Replying to your last post that I just saw: That's how I'm seeing it too. In that case, the G8 are vastly more concerned about the welfare of their own corpa than they are about the welfare of Junior corps (DCI) as a whole. Yeah does sound like politics, just substitue Rep/Dem for "own corps" and country instead of DCI.

and what they dont get it, is if they continue this "me first" attitude, how it affects other corps in negative ways will trickle up to them

[JimF-LowBari]

and what they dont get it, is if they continue this "me first" attitude, how it affects other corps in negative ways will trickle up to them

Yep, always said we need health in all areas of the activity be it Alumni, Minis, All Age or Juniors corps. Now I should expand that to all divisions in DCA (Open/Class A) and DCI (WC/OC, G8/non-G8).

Just picturing a corps head saying their corps is in great shape..... then looking around saying "Where the #### did everyone else go?".

[Daave]

Ignoring something that will likely happen just because it hasn't happened yet is equally foolish - IMO.

The TOC shows are happening in 2011. All of the rest of the original G7 proposal will be in play again at some point. Perhaps it will be modified or repackaged - but the underlying concepts and motivation did not go away just because the G7 lost one vote.

The current BOD has taken a stand on several things. BIG BUT - the current BOD is an interim BOD. All but 2 out of the 9 seats on the current BOD are up for election at the January meetings. That is only about 6 weeks away.

Your past paragraph is the rub. Watch the BOD election closely in Jan.

I spent a week one day in Vegas, so being the betting kinda person I am, I'd be willing to bet that a certain couple of directors have been politicing rrrrreeeeeeeeal hard behind the scenes. Not to be back as part of the BOD in any outward way. However, my bet is that all that needs to be done is convince others to run and (hopefully) be elected to the board and then let the strings of the newly elected puppets be pulled from afar. Most likely with promises of what will to be if the g-whatever isn't allowed to proceed.

I either slept at a Holiday Inn Express recently, or I have watched too many Oliver Stone movies. Either way, I am betting on the track records of some and placing my money on this one.

[BOBSMYTH]

Your past paragraph is the rub. Watch the BOD election closely in Jan.

I spent a week one day in Vegas, so being the betting kinda person I am, I'd be willing to bet that a certain couple of directors have been politicing rrrrreeeeeeeeal hard behind the scenes. Not to be back as part of the BOD in any outward way. However, my bet is that all that needs to be done is convince others to run and (hopefully) be elected to the board and then let the strings of the newly elected puppets be pulled from afar. Most likely with promises of what will to be if the g-whatever isn't allowed to proceed.

I either slept at a Holiday Inn Express recently, or I have watched too many Oliver Stone movies. Either way, I am betting on the track records of some and placing my money on this one.

Oliver Stone was once contemplating making a docu-drama about drum corps. But, he dropped the idea saying that no one would believe anything this far fetched.

Behind the scenes politics and back room deals? You can't be serious!

[spirit7698]

I too will not go to any G8 shows this year and I will pass down the message of what supporting them can cause. I will also spread it to my friends back in Japan marching and teaching.

The eventuality of other corps folding.

Not having members who are involved or inspired by drum corps.

No techs with experience.

Almost all bands that have a descent program are definitely inspired by drum corps weather directly ( a few members are marching in the summer/staff ) or indirectly ( seeing other bands at footbal games that just are incredible which happen to be a " competition " band ).

I saw this when I was marching Suncoast Sound. I lived on one side of Tampa Bay ( Tampa ) where non of the 25 + bands competed and performance levels / show arrangement level was really low but on the other side of the bay ( St. Pete ) Just about every band competed ( not just FBA or State ) and they have incredible programs and of course that level of hardwork and focus and the level of planning from the directors does spread to concert and jazz band and any other ensemble.

Bands in St. Pete have been smoking since the 70's ( thanks to the Fl. Vanguard and Devil Dogs ) but Tampa....hmm...

Now there are band directors that went to school with drum corps / WGI people at U.S.F. and many kids who were in a drum corps in Tampa ( all from a corps that was around for 2 years 2000/2001 ) and you can see the change that has taken place in the last 10 years in 8 or 9 programs..

I bet the G8 is not thinking about there future in that way. In that what they are doing will eventually leave them with no members over about a 10 year period if they could even last that long ....

How is that for growing your market?

Edited December 15, 2010 by spirit7698

[thirdcoast]

I too will not go to any G8 shows this year and I will pass down the message of what supporting them can cause. I will also spread it to my friends back in Japan marching and teaching.

The eventuality of other corps folding.

Not having members who are involved or inspired by drum corps.

No techs with experience.

Almost all bands that have a descent program are definitely inspired by drum corps weather directly ( a few members are marching in the summer/staff ) or indirectly ( seeing other bands at footbal games that just are incredible which happen to be a " competition " band ).

I saw this when I was marching Suncoast Sound. I lived on one side of Tampa Bay ( Tampa ) where non of the 25 + bands competed and performance levels / show arrangement level was really low but on the other side of the bay ( St. Pete ) Just about every band competed ( not just FBA or State ) and they have incredible programs and of course that level of hardwork and focus and the level of planning from the directors does spread to concert and jazz band and any other ensemble.

Bands in St. Pete have been smoking since the 70's ( thanks to the Fl. Vanguard and Devil Dogs ) but Tampa....hmm...

Now there are band directors that went to school with drum corps / WGI people at U.S.F. and many kids who were in a drum corps in Tampa ( all from a corps that was around for 2 years 2000/2001 ) and you can see the change that has taken place in the last 10 years in 8 or 9 programs..

I bet the G8 is not thinking about there future in that way. In that what they are doing will eventually leave them with no members over about a 10 year period if they could even last that long ....

How is that for growing your market?

I wonder if they (g8) have a plan B in case this whole ordeal becomes a complete failure. I have been thinking that mabye that is what they are meeting about this weekend. I can just see it now, " Hey Dan, we are going to need a but load more money now if this does not work." " Could you ask the rest of the Drum Corps to bank roll our 2011 season, please."

[BozzlyB]

So much G-8 hating. I seriously doubt your doomsday scenarios have any legitimacy. Certainly the death of drum corps has NEVER been decried before has it. I don't view DCI as any different. There's still a top 12 at finals, a semis and quarters with new (better) rules, the only real difference is the addition of a few new shows. I'm sure that will bring the activity to it's knees. Feelings of exclusion are fueled by jealousy. Here's a suggestion to the corps out there who feel isolated, lonely, dejected, as if all the talent is soaked up by the big mean G-8 sponge.... get better and knock a corps out.