Dinosaurs vs. New Kids on the block

[marchingartist]

Win. :worthy:

[TerriTroop]

Here is something that you probably do not expect from a dino like me: As long as there is marching brass, marching drums, marching guard, and it is a youth (21 - under) activity it will be considered drum corps in my book. Although I might not like the advent of synths and electronics (not because of instrumental reasons but of technical problems that always arise) I can accept change without reservation. The only beef I have with the current rules is the allowance for an adult professional to run the sound board because that allows a non-member over the age of 21 to "directly" influence the score outcome of the show in real time which is supposed to only be accomplished by the youth. Other than that, have at it you young whipper-snappers!!!

Basically, this is my sentiment exactly. (except my reasons for objections regarding synths is more about anachronism of electronically generated sound vs. acoustically generated sound, and I don't have a problem with amped pits at all.) Other than that, I'm with Stu.

I'm a person who attended finals this year with joy and excitement in my heart. I spend money on sponsorships, recordings and souvies. I'm the current president of the Troopers Alumni Association Committee. I may be "old" (wow, 44 is old? ), but I honor and respect what the current crop of drum corps members do out there on the field. They are no different than my crop was, except they live now with the technological changes that have made drum corps life different - cell phones that compute at a level that boggles the mind, DVD players in buses, buses with bays that can accommodate air mattresses AND luggage! Who woulda thunk it BITD?!?!?!

From what I understand, this thread was inspired by a discussion of the carriage of the American flag during Finals retreat. So I will speak specifically to that for a moment:

The corps who choose to fly the colors have a responsibility to do so honorably. It is not because I think America or Americans are "all that" compared to the rest of humanity. Daniel Ray spoke about the evolving sense of global citizenship. I'm with him on that. Others spoke that how the flag is displayed and "protected" is archaic or insignificant in the scope of how we treat human beings. To that, I say that if a person, persons or even a nation can do both - treat their symbols with respect and honor while taking their responsibility to all of humanity to greater levels - then THAT is the more honorable path. You don't have to foresake one for the other.

I know that the "new kids on the block" are just like me because they talk just like I did. They have some of the same questions, the same concern that the old guard doesn't understand them, the same desire to change the course of the world. And that's ok, because they will use their questions and their energy to do good. That is the beauty of organizations like drum corps - it is a training ground for tenacity, innovation and imagination.

So to the "new kids" I say this: We were you - and you will be us. We came in as many shapes, colors and expressions as you do. You will move this world forward in whatever way you do based on your own beliefs and determination. And all the while there will be a passing down of things from one to the other, and we will all strive toward many common goals of honor, and imagination, and innovation, and tradition.

[JimF-LowBari]

"Dinos"-

Believe it or not, a lot of us are knowledgeable. Just because we weren't there in the 70's, doesn't mean we don't understand the history behind drum corps international.

Have had some good historical discussions with some yutes <$ to My Cousin Vinnie>. +1

Edit: Saw that the OP likes 78 Vanguard which would be about 30 years before their time in corps. Have a bunch of 50s show recordings that I like but that only goes back about 20 years from my time.

Edited August 22, 2011 by JimF-LowBari

[Plan9]

Good topic. Being a relative newbie myself (I'm too old to be a new kid ) I have sort of an unvarnished look at this from a DCP perspective. I have no personal experience with the history and traditions that so many of the so called Dinos do...my views are strictly based on entertainment value and quality of performance within my frame of reference. It has been suggested that I reach back and view shows from yesteryear....I have and I still find the present shows extremely entertaining. Yes, I admit that some of the finals seemed much more energetic in terms of the audience, but I haven't seen anything that appears heads & heels above what's on the field today.

But anyway, here's my take on the OP's post: Generally speaking, both factions are opininated about the trends of DCI.......but the Dino's are the most vocal and percipitate the most contensious debate (and the most interesting, I might add). They are the establishment.... and they fear the loss of traditions that they have loved so much about DC, both as MM's and as fans. Some have been supporters of this activity for a "lifetime"....literally! So it's with that understanding and respect that I always try to "hear" what they're saying. Sure, I call them Dinos....but they love it! They have the most comprehensive understanding of drum corps and despite their "we don't suffer fools gladly" approach, they are a wealth of knowledge and us rookies need to take heed.

My only plea to the Dinos is give some new design ideas a chance. And just because one or two corps are experimenting with musical or visual design, please don't suggest it's the end of life as we know it.

[GeneralTsoChicken]

This isn't a growing trend. This is THE trend, in every facet of the life we live.

Part of me hopes you are just trolling and flaming the forum.

Most of me knows, if anything, you are showing that YOU are the "youngin" because you haven't caught on that this is inherent in all parts of life.

[GREENBLUE]

So,

I wasn't going to bring this up...but since the topic was started, it's time.

I went to the Allentown shows in August for the first time in many years. Had amazing seats, was ready for a great weekend of drum corps. I thought all the corps had amazing shows and performed the hell out of them, probably the best top to bottom we've had in many years.

THIS, is my problem...I was told before going that the Allentown crowd was the most knowledgable and respected in drum corps. Sitting preshow and listening to the stories and the history of those around me, I found that to be true. BUT, I WILL NOT RETURN TO ALLENTOWN anytime soon because those sitting around me were what were calling "dino's".

I had to listen to them complain after every corps that uses synth. I thought Cascades and Teal had 2 of the best shows i had seen from a 20-23 range corps and i had to listen to the dinos complain about the electric violin, etc....honestly they ruined the show for me. I would much rather sit around a bunch of unknowing high school kids that are in constant awe, then to ever have to deal with that again. Very sad.

[MisterA]

First off I am a Dino, early 60's, but as a band instructor, am very much tuned in with the youth of today. Since I lived through and worked around drum corps in the mid 70's, and still try to attend finals every year as well as many shows, there are things I like better about the activity, and things I don't like as well about the activity.

Synthesizers and amplifications are some of the things I don't like as well. Simply because I don't think most corps use them effectively. Balance issues are always a problem, one that you usually don't see as much as when it is just drums and horns. One accidental bump of a switch, and all of a sudden you can no longer hear the horns over the synth.

I think the talent level today is a little higher than in the 70's and 80's, but I think some of that is due to the fact with hundreds of corps folding over the last 30 years, there are less corps to go to, so the talent level per corps is sometimes nothing short of amazing. And the drill has advanced tons since the 80's. The purpose of corps has also changed, as back in the 60s Cavaliers used to be a corps that would take kids with absolutely no musical experience, and train them to march and play. Today, if you didn't have any experience, you would not be able to make Cavaliers, you probably would not be able to even make a World Class corps. Even some Open Class corps wouldn't accept you.

I think Cadets 2 shows about Sarah Jones, and the This I Believe show the biggest example of what I don't care for in todays drum corps. Here you have 2 amazing years corps, with so much talent level, and instead on focusing on how well they march and play, you distract with a long drawn out boring story. I feel This I Believe is the better of the 2 shows, as it does relate the story of fitting in as a band/corps geek. But the Sarah Jones story, I don't think it was a Dino vs. New Kids, as it didn't seem like even the younger group really enjoyed the narration in that show.

I am not so sure that the Dinos like myself have so much of a problem with the changes in drum corps, so much as how badly some of the changes are used. There have however been some uses of synth and vocals that have not been negative, and several corps have been quite creative in their usage. But to be honest there will be alot of older Dinos that just don't feel like drum corps is the same activity as it was in the 60's and 70's. And to that I do agree there has been so many changes it sometimes does not feel like the same activity.

[bass5]

By definition I guess I'm a Dino. I started marching in the 60's and ended in the 70's with an Alumni Corps return to action in 06. Although there are some things(synth especially)that I don't like now I feel Drum Corps has evolved & gotten much better. Most of all I'm just happy its still around.

From hanging around drum corps members the last few years I feel the current members respect the history of drum corps in general but most definitely the history of the corps they are marching. Back in the 70's I don't remember even talking about the corps that preceded us by more than 10 years let alone 20 or 30 years. I think the corps from the 40's and 50's were thought of as being simplistic etc. the same many of today's members look at my era. I certainly don't think of it as an insult but just the way it is.

[TerriTroop]

So,

I wasn't going to bring this up...but since the topic was started, it's time.

I went to the Allentown shows in August for the first time in many years. Had amazing seats, was ready for a great weekend of drum corps. I thought all the corps had amazing shows and performed the hell out of them, probably the best top to bottom we've had in many years.

THIS, is my problem...I was told before going that the Allentown crowd was the most knowledgable and respected in drum corps. Sitting preshow and listening to the stories and the history of those around me, I found that to be true. BUT, I WILL NOT RETURN TO ALLENTOWN anytime soon because those sitting around me were what were calling "dino's".

I had to listen to them complain after every corps that uses synth. I thought Cascades and Teal had 2 of the best shows i had seen from a 20-23 range corps and i had to listen to the dinos complain about the electric violin, etc....honestly they ruined the show for me. I would much rather sit around a bunch of unknowing high school kids that are in constant awe, then to ever have to deal with that again. Very sad.

Don't let one set of spectators turn you away from that show. Go back next year, and be willing to share your own perspectives.

By the way, I've sat next to groups of those "unknowing high school kids" and I can tell you that some of them aren't in awe but are downright rude and disrespectful to the kids on the field. In my case, I got to hear a group of boys in front of me demean the girls in almost every guard. ("yeah, I'd tap that!", or talking about the "fat b****" and the like.) I also go to hear phone conversations during shows, see groups of students looking over each other's shoulders at phones and laughing during shows, or generally making fun of corps hoping to get a rise out of their friends.

My point truly is this: These instances are rare compared to the many, MANY positive observations I've had of teenagers at shows. I won't let these rare events keep me from a show. Every show is going to have segments of the audience that are painful to tolerate, no matter where it is.

[jjeffeory]

This isn't a growing trend. This is THE trend, in every facet of the life we live.

Part of me hopes you are just trolling and flaming the forum.

Most of me knows, if anything, you are showing that YOU are the "youngin" because you haven't caught on that this is inherent in all parts of life.

THIS!

No offence, but this is happening in every part of life. Both from the younger and older crowd.

Both sides have some merit. It's interesting to talk about though... Or in my case, just read and then provide brief comments from time to time...