TomPeashey Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 I've got money that says we'll have 15 open class corps next year... just a guess, but an educated one... The entire Class A/Open Class system was predicated on the desire of Class A corps to grow and improve. It is critical that there are enough carrots dangled to get all corps to strive to improve... this is critical to the fan base... I would allow an exception for a group that has "extenuating circumstances" to plan their program to stay in Class A (Govies is the obvious one due to there being in the middle of nowhere)... plus they entertain like mad... which is a key factor here... Somewhere along the line the intent - no, our intent as I was on the committee that founded Class A - of Class A got set a bit aside... it was to create MORE open class corps and more corps in general... the perfect examples of how class A was intended was both Atlanta Corps... The secondary intent was to allow corps that have fallen on hard times to come back in an affordable way and give them time to grow without getting ridiculous low numbers discouraging membership... Sky back when, Sun and others fall into that category... Making Class A the equal of Open Class would be a dangerous slope. It is my belief - and I'm speaking for myself, remember I retired - that at least 2 corps this year should have competed in open class. I'm assuming they will in 2012. I found it a bit convenient and ironic that both of those corps marched exactly 65 performers. I've said it before and I'll say it now, any corps that turns away a competent performer to stay at 65 people has completely missed what the activity is all about. Further, allowing these corps to get comfortable with the smaller budgets and "leaner" recruiting deprives the activity of the tremendous potential for entertainment that these corps possess. The bottom line is that we have to see the economy bounce back or we're all in troubled waters anyway... So NO, reducing the number of open class corps in finals would be a HUGE mistake and of course it will never happen unless the activity shrinks so bad that it can't support the 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBD Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I've got money that says we'll have 15 open class corps next year... just a guess, but an educated one... The entire Class A/Open Class system was predicated on the desire of Class A corps to grow and improve. It is critical that there are enough carrots dangled to get all corps to strive to improve... this is critical to the fan base... I would allow an exception for a group that has "extenuating circumstances" to plan their program to stay in Class A (Govies is the obvious one due to there being in the middle of nowhere)... plus they entertain like mad... which is a key factor here... Somewhere along the line the intent - no, our intent as I was on the committee that founded Class A - of Class A got set a bit aside... it was to create MORE open class corps and more corps in general... the perfect examples of how class A was intended was both Atlanta Corps... The secondary intent was to allow corps that have fallen on hard times to come back in an affordable way and give them time to grow without getting ridiculous low numbers discouraging membership... Sky back when, Sun and others fall into that category... Making Class A the equal of Open Class would be a dangerous slope. It is my belief - and I'm speaking for myself, remember I retired - that at least 2 corps this year should have competed in open class. I'm assuming they will in 2012. I found it a bit convenient and ironic that both of those corps marched exactly 65 performers. I've said it before and I'll say it now, any corps that turns away a competent performer to stay at 65 people has completely missed what the activity is all about. Further, allowing these corps to get comfortable with the smaller budgets and "leaner" recruiting deprives the activity of the tremendous potential for entertainment that these corps possess. The bottom line is that we have to see the economy bounce back or we're all in troubled waters anyway... So NO, reducing the number of open class corps in finals would be a HUGE mistake and of course it will never happen unless the activity shrinks so bad that it can't support the 10. Hey Tom, Though I agree with most or all of your points, I have to ask you one question.What committee were you on that started the class A division? The DCA class A was the brainchild of Dan Rippon, Then director of the Westshoremen. Dan asked me if I was interested in helping him get a rule change passed at the fall congress for the formation of a class A division and I said "yes". Both Dan and myself worked the phones and Dan wrote the by law change/addition for a class A division for the upcoming season. The membership voted unanimously for the addition and the rest is history! I read so much about how everyone loves the class A division and I really think its time that Dan Rippon gets the recognition he deserves for having the vision so many years ago. It was and still is a great idea that has helped make the DCA a wonderful organization. Jay A retired DCA Director 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Simple answer there. Another ticket to sell. Im sure DCA and the corps that receive benefit from DCA revenue count on this money to get through the season. Follow the money.:) ok money is a factor..like it or not I can buy that answer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 (edited) I've got money that says we'll have 15 open class corps next year... just a guess, but an educated one... The entire Class A/Open Class system was predicated on the desire of Class A corps to grow and improve. It is critical that there are enough carrots dangled to get all corps to strive to improve... this is critical to the fan base... I would allow an exception for a group that has "extenuating circumstances" to plan their program to stay in Class A (Govies is the obvious one due to there being in the middle of nowhere)... plus they entertain like mad... which is a key factor here... Somewhere along the line the intent - no, our intent as I was on the committee that founded Class A - of Class A got set a bit aside... it was to create MORE open class corps and more corps in general... the perfect examples of how class A was intended was both Atlanta Corps... The secondary intent was to allow corps that have fallen on hard times to come back in an affordable way and give them time to grow without getting ridiculous low numbers discouraging membership... Sky back when, Sun and others fall into that category... Making Class A the equal of Open Class would be a dangerous slope. It is my belief - and I'm speaking for myself, remember I retired - that at least 2 corps this year should have competed in open class. I'm assuming they will in 2012. I found it a bit convenient and ironic that both of those corps marched exactly 65 performers. I've said it before and I'll say it now, any corps that turns away a competent performer to stay at 65 people has completely missed what the activity is all about. Further, allowing these corps to get comfortable with the smaller budgets and "leaner" recruiting deprives the activity of the tremendous potential for entertainment that these corps possess. The bottom line is that we have to see the economy bounce back or we're all in troubled waters anyway... So NO, reducing the number of open class corps in finals would be a HUGE mistake and of course it will never happen unless the activity shrinks so bad that it can't support the 10. or 2 corps shouldnt have been in OC...lets just say those 4 were pretty equal..cause thats another discussion I know many many people felt that way.( god I hate when others say that)...lol.......and thats with all respect due to all 4 corps..at least from me. Edited September 9, 2011 by GUARDLING Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOSMarcher Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 or 2 corps shouldnt have been in OC...lets just say those 4 were pretty equal..cause thats another discussion I know many many people felt that way.( god I hate when others say that)...lol.......and thats with all respect due to all 4 corps..at least from me. Just curious... who are the two Open Class groups that should have been Class A? I could understand Bush, but which other? All of the other groups had over 65 members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 at least 2 corps this year should have competed in open class. I'm assuming they will in 2012. I found it a bit convenient and ironic that both of those corps marched exactly 65 performers. I've said it before and I'll say it now, any corps that turns away a competent performer to stay at 65 people has completely missed what the activity is all about. Further, allowing these corps to get comfortable with the smaller budgets and "leaner" recruiting deprives the activity of the tremendous potential for entertainment that these corps possess. Well, obviously those two corps don't share your opinion. The rules as written don't prevent A corps from cutting folks anymore than they prevent Reading from cutting percussion and guard to get to the 128 limit. Tell you what, Tom, let's do away with the membership cap in open class first. Then we can assess what Class A corps do at 65+. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCA1Fan Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I've got money that says we'll have 15 open class corps next year... just a guess, but an educated one... The entire Class A/Open Class system was predicated on the desire of Class A corps to grow and improve. It is critical that there are enough carrots dangled to get all corps to strive to improve... this is critical to the fan base... I would allow an exception for a group that has "extenuating circumstances" to plan their program to stay in Class A (Govies is the obvious one due to there being in the middle of nowhere)... plus they entertain like mad... which is a key factor here... Somewhere along the line the intent - no, our intent as I was on the committee that founded Class A - of Class A got set a bit aside... it was to create MORE open class corps and more corps in general... the perfect examples of how class A was intended was both Atlanta Corps... The secondary intent was to allow corps that have fallen on hard times to come back in an affordable way and give them time to grow without getting ridiculous low numbers discouraging membership... Sky back when, Sun and others fall into that category... Making Class A the equal of Open Class would be a dangerous slope. It is my belief - and I'm speaking for myself, remember I retired - that at least 2 corps this year should have competed in open class. I'm assuming they will in 2012. I found it a bit convenient and ironic that both of those corps marched exactly 65 performers. I've said it before and I'll say it now, any corps that turns away a competent performer to stay at 65 people has completely missed what the activity is all about. Further, allowing these corps to get comfortable with the smaller budgets and "leaner" recruiting deprives the activity of the tremendous potential for entertainment that these corps possess. The bottom line is that we have to see the economy bounce back or we're all in troubled waters anyway... So NO, reducing the number of open class corps in finals would be a HUGE mistake and of course it will never happen unless the activity shrinks so bad that it can't support the 10. Tom, I could not disagree more. Corps size has much more involved than number of members. What if a corps does not have enough horns for that addiitonal member? What if the corps is not in an area where they are "in the middle of nowhere" but in an area where there are 5 or more corps wihtin 3 hours' distance? What if the practice facilities available to a program can only handle a Class A size group? This list of examples could fill a book. As Govies (and others) clearly showed, Class A is NOT inferior to Open. THAT midset is the problem, IMO, with DCA right now. Number of members does NOT equal quality, no matter what the judges try to say otherwise. A Class A corps, if trained right and programmed right, SHOULD be able to compete successfully against the Readings and MBIs of the world. Not in DCA, that's for sure...that has been made clear. "Small corps, small score" is alive and well...rewarding quantity not quality. Think about the corps of old...where there were corps on every corner...did they all have 128 members? Not according to MY memory. Now think about our reality today: would the activity have more support and members with 10 128 member corps...or 30 42 member corps with the ability to grow,especially in this economy? How many shows could the 30 do as opposed to the 10? How many more areas can be exposed to this activity? Class A is NOT the "ugly stepchild" of DCA as you are suggesting: dreaming in a corner "Oh maybe one day I can "go to the big dance" like my attractive big sister." You stated "strive to improve", where I think you meant "the drive to grow". As I said above, quantity does not equal quality. If the organization cannot recognize that a Govies can beat a Reading in quality, then maybe different sheets ARE needed. Personally, I think it's a mental shift from "bigger is better" to "quality is better". Note that I'm not saying Govies SHOULD have beaten Reading this year...but they stepped on the field knowing there is no way in the world DCA would allow them to beat Reading or ANY of the "big 5" no matter HOW good they got (individual judges aside since there were one or two that had the guts to do it). If you want a minimum number, establish it. If you want quality, reward it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUARDLING Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Just curious... who are the two Open Class groups that should have been Class A? I could understand Bush, but which other? All of the other groups had over 65 members. members or # of members doesnt mean a corps is OC or A class material.when you merely look at a number to determine quality or placement something is wrong..IMO...small can be as good as large if programed correctly and the flip side of that also applies..just beacuse you have a full corps doesnt mean it was done well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeDz Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 We had eleven Open Class corps this year. Assuming all eleven come back in 2012, we could have fifteen with Kidsgrove intending to return, Cadets 2 forming, as well as Brigs and possibly Sky coming back. What about Cru??? I don't think we are far from having a fifteen-corps prelims in both Open and Class A..... a better economy would help, too. Joe Dz in NJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 I've got money that says we'll have 15 open class corps next year... just a guess, but an educated one... The entire Class A/Open Class system was predicated on the desire of Class A corps to grow and improve. It is critical that there are enough carrots dangled to get all corps to strive to improve... this is critical to the fan base... I would allow an exception for a group that has "extenuating circumstances" to plan their program to stay in Class A (Govies is the obvious one due to there being in the middle of nowhere)... plus they entertain like mad... which is a key factor here... Somewhere along the line the intent - no, our intent as I was on the committee that founded Class A - of Class A got set a bit aside... it was to create MORE open class corps and more corps in general... the perfect examples of how class A was intended was both Atlanta Corps... The secondary intent was to allow corps that have fallen on hard times to come back in an affordable way and give them time to grow without getting ridiculous low numbers discouraging membership... Sky back when, Sun and others fall into that category... Making Class A the equal of Open Class would be a dangerous slope. It is my belief - and I'm speaking for myself, remember I retired - that at least 2 corps this year should have competed in open class. I'm assuming they will in 2012. I found it a bit convenient and ironic that both of those corps marched exactly 65 performers. I've said it before and I'll say it now, any corps that turns away a competent performer to stay at 65 people has completely missed what the activity is all about. Further, allowing these corps to get comfortable with the smaller budgets and "leaner" recruiting deprives the activity of the tremendous potential for entertainment that these corps possess. The bottom line is that we have to see the economy bounce back or we're all in troubled waters anyway... So NO, reducing the number of open class corps in finals would be a HUGE mistake and of course it will never happen unless the activity shrinks so bad that it can't support the 10. I'll almost agree. if a corps stayed under 65 members because the budget wasn't ready yet for more uniform expense or more equipment purchases, then by all means, I think it's a no brainer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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