MikeN Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 but...NFL venues accounts for how many shows in the entire schedule? 5% The majority of fans don't live all that close to those venues. You're... missing the point. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 You're... missing the point. Mike no. the tour operator has to look at ALL options for venues. Not just the big houses. concert promoters don't always do that....and neither will the acts let them sometimes. Hence, DCI steps in to tread the fine line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Just to see if we're talking about the same thing here....how many DCI corps do you think are not on par with the majority of HS bands? Having seen them all, I can identify only three. I'd say maybe 5. Just... I think the bar needs to be even higher... as in the lowest performing corps in DCI should be considerably better than the highest performing marching band in the country. If corps don't meet this standard... maybe DCA is a better outlet for them... and they may apply for the DCI tour when they meet the minimum standard. I'll give you credit....that's a good question. On the other hand, it was by the wisdom of higher-ranking corps that regional and local circuit operations were shut down and replaced by DCI. Are you questioning that judgment? I think it should be a single tour... managed by a single operator... that coordinates activities with local promoters. No need to have so many corps out there touring... just have shows with a different mix of high performing corps. The test for world class should be that you can have a show with any combination of corps and the attendance should be expected to be the same. Right now... a should with the bottom 6 corps would not even be comparable in terms of attendance and revenue to a show with the top 6. This indicates they really aren't in the same league. World class needs to be pared down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted December 3, 2011 Author Share Posted December 3, 2011 (edited) I'd say maybe 5. Just... I think the bar needs to be even higher... as in the lowest performing corps in DCI should be considerably better than the highest performing marching band in the country. If corps don't meet this standard... maybe DCA is a better outlet for them... and they may apply for the DCI tour when they meet the minimum standard. I think it should be a single tour... managed by a single operator... that coordinates activities with local promoters. Agree, this is where scale can be achieved, so long as the local promoter has an incentive to run the show. Unless you provide that incentive then DCI will be required to produce every show - a much more logistically expensive proposition. Much of the presumed savings of DCI producing shows will be soaked up the costs of DCI producing the show. And DCI would pay the same rates for local promotion that TEP's pay now, possibly with the exception of negotiating national contracts with TV networks and print outlets. No need to have so many corps out there touring... just have shows with a different mix of high performing corps. With a total of 10 corps on the tour, how many "different mix" shows can you have? Two tours of five corps? Two "mixes"? The test for world class should be that you can have a show with any combination of corps and the attendance should be expected to be the same. You're suggest that the same number of people will come see a mix of numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 as will come see 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10, for example? Certainly not that you'll get the same attendance at a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 as you would a 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, right? Further, if your thesis is plausible (I'm dubious), it would stand to reason that the same thesis can be applies to the remaining 10. That is, if true, it won't be long before the 10-corps tour is whittled down to smaller, say 7 (surprise!), then maybe 5. At that point, is this even still an activity? Right now... a should with the bottom 6 corps would not even be comparable in terms of attendance and revenue to a show with the top 6. This indicates they really aren't in the same league. World class needs to be pared down. I can't argue against this point, and I'll add that an early season show won't be comparable in attendance to a late season show. BUT, year over year, an 7 corps show with 3 top-6 will draw the same each year, regardless of who the corps are, and will provide more variety of corps ("mix") and offer a greater incentive to attend than year after year seeing the same ten corps. I can see fans choosing to go less often, not more, (say once every other year than every year) to see the same 10 shows produced the same way. I see it getting quite boring rather quickly to even the hard-core fans like myself. Edited December 3, 2011 by garfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Agree, this is where scale can be achieved, so long as the local promoter has an incentive to run the show. Unless you provide that incentive then DCI will be required to produce every show - a much more logistically expensive proposition. Much of the presumed savings of DCI producing shows will be soaked up the costs of DCI producing the show. And DCI would pay the same rates for local promotion that TEP's pay now, possibly with the exception of negotiating national contracts with TV networks and print outlets. With a total of 10 corps on the tour, how many "different mix" shows can you have? Two tours of five corps? Two "mixes"? You're suggest that the same number of people will come see a mix of numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 as will come see 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10, for example? Certainly not that you'll get the same attendance at a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 as you would a 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, right? Further, if your thesis is plausible (I'm dubious), it would stand to reason that the same thesis can be applies to the remaining 10. That is, if true, it won't be long before the 10-corps tour is whittled down to smaller, say 7 (surprise!), then maybe 5. At that point, is this even still an activity? I can't argue against this point, and I'll add that an early season show won't be comparable in attendance to a late season show. BUT, year over year, an 7 corps show with 3 top-6 will draw the same each year, regardless of who the corps are, and will provide more variety of corps ("mix") and offer a greater incentive to attend than year after year seeing the same ten corps. I can see fans choosing to go less often, not more, (say once every other year than every year) to see the same 10 shows produced the same way. I see it getting quite boring rather quickly to even the hard-core fans like myself. with the tour set up as is now, fans often see one show live a year as is. his proposal may eliminate even that for many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Less than 20% of US high schools have competitive marching bands. For college, make that 0%. I think it's safe to say that 80% of kids in that age demographic don't have a competing marching band at their current school. Regardless of whether this stat is accurate or not, a HUGE percentage of drum corps participants come from competitive marching bands. Your point really doesn't hold water -- DCI is not a substitute for HS MB . It's more like the pinnacle of that activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Agree, this is where scale can be achieved, so long as the local promoter has an incentive to run the show. Unless you provide that incentive then DCI will be required to produce every show - a much more logistically expensive proposition. Much of the presumed savings of DCI producing shows will be soaked up the costs of DCI producing the show. And DCI would pay the same rates for local promotion that TEP's pay now, possibly with the exception of negotiating national contracts with TV networks and print outlets. With a total of 10 corps on the tour, how many "different mix" shows can you have? Two tours of five corps? Two "mixes"? You're suggest that the same number of people will come see a mix of numbers 1, 3, 5, 7, and 9 as will come see 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10, for example? Certainly not that you'll get the same attendance at a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 as you would a 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, right? Further, if your thesis is plausible (I'm dubious), it would stand to reason that the same thesis can be applies to the remaining 10. That is, if true, it won't be long before the 10-corps tour is whittled down to smaller, say 7 (surprise!), then maybe 5. At that point, is this even still an activity? I can't argue against this point, and I'll add that an early season show won't be comparable in attendance to a late season show. BUT, year over year, an 7 corps show with 3 top-6 will draw the same each year, regardless of who the corps are, and will provide more variety of corps ("mix") and offer a greater incentive to attend than year after year seeing the same ten corps. I can see fans choosing to go less often, not more, (say once every other year than every year) to see the same 10 shows produced the same way. I see it getting quite boring rather quickly to even the hard-core fans like myself. Who said anything about 10 corps? As mentioned before... I think 15 is about right for WC... roughly the same for OC. The hope is that WC will grow, but not by changing the minimum standard.... corps just achieving a higher level. I'm all for new corps being created... just as long as they meet a minimum standard. This will force better planning and more proper management... rather than a mindset of just trying to get something on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielray Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 with the tour set up as is now, fans often see one show live a year as is. his proposal may eliminate even that for many Not following.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted December 3, 2011 Share Posted December 3, 2011 Regardless of whether this stat is accurate or not, a HUGE percentage of drum corps participants come from competitive marching bands. Your point really doesn't hold water -- DCI is not a substitute for HS MB . It's more like the pinnacle of that activity. And to add to that, the top DCI corps often draw from the top competitive marching bands. It's not unheard of that many folks who march in a Top 6 corps came from marching a high-achieving HS marching band. You can say it's more like the pinnacle of that activity, but it's almost like an augmentation, or continuance, of the competitive marching band activity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecamburn Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 haven't read the whole thread, but here's my vote fwiw no... IMO, DCI, like colleges and universities, is a great example of a successful self-governed organization. Drum corps is a very unique, hybrid activity involving highlyk specialized expertise. Corps directors and others who have devoted their professional lives to the activity have the greatest expertise in the activity and are in the best position to govern it. What on earth is the fascination with business people? How does working in business qualify you to govern anything? For cripes sake in this economy, there are serious doubts about whether experience in business bodes well for your future potential in business let alone in some activity you know nothing about. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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