KC4Bloo Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) This just so sad. Drum Corps has been such a wonderful experience for my own son. I feel for members of Teal, what they're going through. Must be devastating. Best of luck to that organization as it tries to regroup. Doesn't this make two groups out recently due to financial struggles? Racine Scouts last week? Man...so sad. Edited July 10, 2012 by KC4Bloo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I guess they didn't think they could get away with the "we had thousands in cash stolen on tour, please help!" scam again. I mean they could have at least tried. It's sad that DCI needs to be a watchdog to keep corps on the field. People incapable of running a business will continue to start/run corps. Some will last longer than others, but bad business practices win out eventually. Yeah? Will we? Did we find out the truth about Revolution last year? Impulse when they collapsed? Oregon Crusaders when they were begging for money to tour? Magic? Southwind? What seems to happen is these things fade away until people forget about them and the outrage has died down. It's the same, tired, DCP story. A handful demand answers and accountability, while another handful insists on baselessly defending every failed corps and says "hey let's just wait and see, we don't know the whole story". At what point do these corps stop getting the benefit of the doubt? Have any of those stories ever been that the corps made a lot of the right business decisions but ended up being just unlucky and ran bad for like 3 years in all financial aspects? I know it sounds negative and pessimistic, but these stories are invariably irresponsible corps management. I see approximately zero scenarios where any reasonably competent board/director would let any corps attempt a full tour if there was a chance of having to pack it in mid-season. If they knew it was going to be tight, why not adjust their touring schedule? I know there are penalties and whatnot for pulling out of shows but how is that a worse scenario than saying "f### it, let's see how far we can get!!" which is what it seems like they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBones Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 lawsuits? technically the kids/parents did sign a contract First and foremost, this is very sad. I respect Teals program. Very classy. As far as signing a contract, unless it specifically states that "if the corps folds while on tour, there is no reimbursement of fees", the members/parents have the right to go after any and all administration and Board for a refund. If the members/parents did sign a contract and haven't paid, that is a different story altogether. I know some corps place a clause stating "if you quit" you do not get a refund. It doesn't look good now. Just like it didn't look good last year for Revo. They came back. No reason to think Teal can't come back either. I would hate to see another corps go under. I wish Teal the best of luck in the future. If any corps does bring any of Teals members into their corps, they should be cut a break as they have paid too much already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hostrauser Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yeah? Will we? Did we find out the truth about Revolution last year? Impulse when they collapsed? Oregon Crusaders when they were begging for money to tour? Magic? Southwind? Or Capital Regiment. Esperanza. The original Velvet Knights. And on and on. I fully agree with you. I'm not blaming ANYONE involved with Teal Sound, and I'm not bashing the corps... but I don't think anyone has the right to tell drum corps fans to stop asking questions or stop trying to find out the details of what happened. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rifuarian Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) And just for the record, I was and still am planning to audition for Teal in 2013. Call me crazy, but I have faith...as long as people will quit complaining with their computer keys and start committing with their financial fees. Your enthusiasm is commendable, but if you're considering marching a corps that had to quit mid-tour you'd best leave faith off to one side. Faith has burned many, many, many people in this activity, myself included. In my marching days I repeated the "It'll be all right" mantra over and over again. Things did not turn out all right. It's a sad story that's happened again and again and again and again and again. And unfortunately it's going to keep happening. I'm not saying don't march this corps or that corps, but you shouldn't hand over your hard earned dollars to a corps that's had financial difficulties on faith alone. Be optimistic, but cautious. Be prepared to ask some hard questions. If they can't be answered to your satisfaction, go elsewhere. In particular, if the corps lets substantial numbers of marchers to go on tour without paying dues in full, or if it doesn't keep a substantial "#### happens" fund in the bank . . . watch out. You could end up throwing your money into a black hole. March. But be careful. Edited July 10, 2012 by Rifuarian 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corpsband Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Personally, I really don't see much of a difference if it's profit or non-profit. If I had paid in full and my kid only got a partial tour - I'd want a percentage refund. My kid didn't get what he/we paid for. That isn't unreasonable. The cold hard reality of wanting a refund and actually getting one is a whole different thing. No it's not unreasonable if those funds are sitting in a bank account readily available. But (IMO) you're completely ignoring the impact of taking legal action to secure the refund (not to mention the fact you probably won't end up with much of a refund in the end). In that case you're suing -- not to recover the dues which you won't see anyway -- but as a punitive measure to assuage your hurt feelings. And the foreseeable result is the permanent dissolution of the drum corps. So x years later you get your $500 and the satisfaction of ensuring that no kid can ever participate in Teal Sound again. Yep -- sounds like a winning proposition to me. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 First and foremost, this is very sad. I respect Teals program. Very classy. As far as signing a contract, unless it specifically states that "if the corps folds while on tour, there is no reimbursement of fees", the members/parents have the right to go after any and all administration and Board for a refund. If the members/parents did sign a contract and haven't paid, that is a different story altogether. I know some corps place a clause stating "if you quit" you do not get a refund. It doesn't look good now. Just like it didn't look good last year for Revo. They came back. No reason to think Teal can't come back either. I would hate to see another corps go under. I wish Teal the best of luck in the future. If any corps does bring any of Teals members into their corps, they should be cut a break as they have paid too much already. trust me, I do not want to see the corps sued. but in this day and age you can be sued for sneezing in the wrong tone of voice 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RetiredJedi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 No it's not unreasonable if those funds are sitting in a bank account readily available. But (IMO) you're completely ignoring the impact of taking legal action to secure the refund (not to mention the fact you probably won't end up with much of a refund in the end). In that case you're suing -- not to recover the dues which you won't see anyway -- but as a punitive measure to assuage your hurt feelings. And the foreseeable result is the permanent dissolution of the drum corps. So x years later you get your $500 and the satisfaction of ensuring that no kid can ever participate in Teal Sound again. Yep -- sounds like a winning proposition to me. The story as I understand it is that the original bus company busted the contract and has not refunded the money back to Teal. This has caused a cash flow nightmare while the Corps is out on tour now. The money is out there but Teal doesn't have it back yet. So, yes, the money will be available. Eventually. (If this is incorrect then it changes how I feel about it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I guess they didn't think they could get away with the "we had thousands in cash stolen on tour, please help!" scam again. I mean they could have at least tried. It's sad that DCI needs to be a watchdog to keep corps on the field. People incapable of running a business will continue to start/run corps. Some will last longer than others, but bad business practices win out eventually. Yeah? Will we? Did we find out the truth about Revolution last year? Impulse when they collapsed? Oregon Crusaders when they were begging for money to tour? Magic? Southwind? What seems to happen is these things fade away until people forget about them and the outrage has died down. It's the same, tired, DCP story. A handful demand answers and accountability, while another handful insists on baselessly defending every failed corps and says "hey let's just wait and see, we don't know the whole story". At what point do these corps stop getting the benefit of the doubt? Have any of those stories ever been that the corps made a lot of the right business decisions but ended up being just unlucky and ran bad for like 3 years in all financial aspects? I know it sounds negative and pessimistic, but these stories are invariably irresponsible corps management. I see approximately zero scenarios where any reasonably competent board/director would let any corps attempt a full tour if there was a chance of having to pack it in mid-season. If they knew it was going to be tight, why not adjust their touring schedule? I know there are penalties and whatnot for pulling out of shows but how is that a worse scenario than saying "f### it, let's see how far we can get!!" which is what it seems like they did. Hey, hold on there, Nellie, don't be attacking those who call for calm heads and no accusations. My suggestion is not "baseless". In fact, being calm, not jumping to conclusions, don't enflame the situation with speculation, and "put away the pitch-forks" has a very strong base. Suggesting "irresponsible corps management" is, in itself, irresponsible because YOU HAVE NO FACTS. Further, I'd like for you to explain just why it is that you are entitled to any explanation what-so-ever! Do you have a vested interest in this corps and, if so, why are you blabbering on DCP instead of engaging the corps or DCI? How much money have you gifted to Teal over the year(s)? How many souvies? Just what makes you think you're entitled to know one, #### thing about this situation? Calm down, Suzie-Q and temper your accusations aimed at the parties, or DCP'ers, until you have facts. If you wish to carry your pitch-fork to Dan A's office I'd love to hear the response you get. And ditto for the corps as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarimbaManiac Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 It's sad that DCI needs to be a watchdog to keep corps on the field. People incapable of running a business will continue to start/run corps. Some will last longer than others, but bad business practices win out eventually. Well look, it's not like we are talking about a startup open class corps with no history or experience. This would make more sense if that was the case. We are talking about a world class corps that has gone through supposedly rigorous financial evaluations before they were allowed to compete in the world class. When we think of world class, we think of organizations that have insulated themselves against these types of events, and have the infrastructure available to weather the financial storm. If that is no longer true, than the entire world class touring model is in jeopardy, and it's in DCI's best interest to make sure that these organizations remain financially stable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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