JoeDz Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) Let's try to separate good taste etiquette from code etiquette. Code, as a strict law, provides guidelines for proper flag etiquette for OUR flag and all other colors as well. Drum corps and competitive color guard has always applied proper penalties for all violations including trailing, backing up, dipping, and any other unguarded or out of place moments. My first night as instructor in competition in the Liberty Color Guard Circuit in 1972 brought me seven points in well-deserved penalties for MOMENTS of trailing. Some corps incorporated national flag look-alikes into their drill to REPRESENT a US or foreign flag without being subject to penalties, while still showing respect to the look-alike. One such example would be the circa 1980 Bridgemen with their use of a US flag with the star field filled by a peace symbol. If that had been an actual US flag, penalties would exist for backing up, unguarded colors, and trailing....... still, it was done TASTEFULLY and without penalty. Another example of US color representation would be the 1992 Star show "American Variations." They had a US flag image all through the show....and with good taste and respect. With our shows "evolving" into graphic accurate representation of historical images, representation of other country flags has been more and more true to the actual thing. In such a case where a flag is intended to represent a nation's colors, more and more care should be shown in handling that flag. While not deserving a penalty, I don't think dragging and tossing flags DESIGNED to look like national colors should be tolerated by the judges or the audience. I don't care what the LAW says....... I don't care what the RULES say......I don't care that the original poster's friend was from the country the flag was made to resemble...... I don't care about stars and stripes picnic napkins, or, for that matter Japanese boxer shorts with the "rising sun" right over the fly........ if you are going to use silks intended to suggest a nation's colors, suggest so with dignity...... it doesn't take much to do it right. This is NOT an intended to single out the Hurricanes, but to respond to the original post regarding Union Jacks being tossed and dragged...... The Hurcs AF section has been at the forefront of DCA on this issue..... my comment applies to ANY use of national color look-alikes. I still feel "some" alumni corps need to watch videos of the Cabs Alumni AF section through an entire show...... one AF, one Maple leaf....incorporated IN THE SHOW....NO PENALTY......same for Scout House (guarding with pistols). Joe Dz in NJ (edited to avoid punctuation penalty) Edited July 17, 2012 by JoeDz 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 (edited) I don't care what the LAW says....... I don't care what the RULES say......I don't care that the original poster's friend was from the country the flag was made to resemble...... I don't care about stars and stripes picnic napkins, or, for that matter Japanese boxer shorts with the "rising sun" right over the fly........ if you are going to use silks intended to suggest a nation's colors, suggest so with dignity...... it doesn't take much to do it right. I like.... And wondering how the rules applied to my old corps huge American flag (not a representative image) held right off the ground at the end of their 1980 show (aka - "that" pigeon episode at DCA). Talk about trailing penalty, only corps memebrs behind the flag were the ones holding up the back. Edited July 17, 2012 by JimF-LowBari Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The tossed and dragged comment makes it sound as if they are intentionally desecrating the flags. They are spinning a show. They aren't depicting anything in a disrespectful manner. If jazz running while holding the flag at a downward angle and tossing flags as color guards do is disrespectful to any flag we might as well stop guards now and revert them to back 40 years ago. I'm sorry but this whole thing is being made into something that is crazy. The guard is out there doing what every other guard does, what so very many have done with other silks of similar designs to accentuate the ideas of the show. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 The tossed and dragged comment makes it sound as if they are intentionally desecrating the flags. They are spinning a show. They aren't depicting anything in a disrespectful manner. If jazz running while holding the flag at a downward angle and tossing flags as color guards do is disrespectful to any flag we might as well stop guards now and revert them to back 40 years ago. I'm sorry but this whole thing is being made into something that is crazy. The guard is out there doing what every other guard does, what so very many have done with other silks of similar designs to accentuate the ideas of the show. Liz do you mean flags that have any design on them or flags that have a countries National flag (100% accurate or "looks like") on them? Makse a difference to me so asking. and no I didn't give the -1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 IMO the fact we are debating how to use flags that look similar to other nations is rediculous. Someone mentioned CBC using one that looked like France's in 1989. What? No bruhaha then because we hate the French? If this was the 1st time a flag of this nature was used, fine. But it isn't. Plain and simple. Again it leads me to think it is noticed because the guatd is really, really good. If they were out there with 12 members, spinning poorly and going unnoticed by anyone, would this really have even been an issue?? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 IMO the fact we are debating how to use flags that look similar to other nations is rediculous. Someone mentioned CBC using one that looked like France's in 1989. What? No bruhaha then because we hate the French? Possibly because of no Internet.... If this was the 1st time a flag of this nature was used, fine. But it isn't. Plain and simple. Again it leads me to think it is noticed because the guatd is really, really good. If they were out there with 12 members, spinning poorly and going unnoticed by anyone, would this really have even been an issue?? And I heard complaints when the "looks like" flags were used in corps shows BITD so it's not a new thing. Will have to look closer to the pics but still waiting to hear what the differences are between what the Hurrcs are using and the real Union Jack. And have been a fan of the Hurrcs since 1975 so ain't picking on them.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 IMO the fact we are debating how to use flags that look similar to other nations is rediculous. Someone mentioned CBC using one that looked like France's in 1989. What? No bruhaha then because we hate the French? If this was the 1st time a flag of this nature was used, fine. But it isn't. Plain and simple. Again it leads me to think it is noticed because the guatd is really, really good. If they were out there with 12 members, spinning poorly and going unnoticed by anyone, would this really have even been an issue?? Garfield's color guard used sylized American and British flags in our 1971 show "America, the Brave"....the all-boy honor guard carried real flags for the color presentation. FYI...the guard captain in the pic is DCI/WGI/USBand judge Judy Ulchinsky (Tompko at the time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 So I suppose we should've gotten a nasty-gram from France and 89 Cadets???? eh, it's Just France. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skajerk Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 I need more red marks Glad I could help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 eh, it's Just France. I mean BESIDES that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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