MikeN Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Supersop - totally agree. Nothing changed at all with the new system. Placements were actually •more• static this year than past, and the same corps in the same order with more or less the same scores. Mike 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMcomguy Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) "WGI designers need something to do all summer. " There you go. This about sums it up! Why do we have Visual GE or Visual Analysis captions if they are all judged from WGI people and at many times only based off of feedback from what the guard is doing? There is a Guard caption for a reason, and it makes me very worried for the future of design when I hear staff or professionals associated with the activity agree with me. WGI has it's own season, it's own product, and a rabid fanbase just like WGI. There is no need to merge the two creatures like we've seen over the past few years. Many DCI fans (read: the paying public which keep DCI alive) are not WGI fans, nor want to be. The same is true for WGI fans when it comes to DCI. Guess what Mike, brass players and players need something to do in the winter too. Who cares? Edited August 12, 2012 by IMcomguy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrunchyTenor Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 This about sums it up! Why do we have Visual GE or Visual Analysis captions if they are all judged from WGI people and at many times only based off of feedback from what the guard is doing? There is a Guard caption for a reason, and it makes me very worried for the future of design when I hear staff or professionals associated with the activity agree with me. WGI has it's own season, it's own product, and a rabid fanbase just like DCI. There is no need to merge the two creatures like we've seen over the past few years. Many DCI fans (read: the paying public which keep DCI alive) are not WGI fans, nor want to be. The same is true for WGI fans when it comes to DCI. Guess what Mike, brass players and drummers need something to do in the winter too. Who cares? Fix'd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tad_MMA Posted August 12, 2012 Author Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) I still insist that much of this "new injection" comes from one corps going undefeated for so long (and now counting this year). One conversation Michael and I had that didn't make the interview was that although our culture enjoys success, it tends to say, "Enough already!" after a while. I mentioned two of the most popular US Presidents of the last century: Reagan and Clinton. The height of their popularity was NOT in either's last two years. (Even FDR's Electoral numbers ebbed as he was re-re-reelected).If Michael Phelps had dominated as he did in '08, we'd all be waving our little flags, but if he did it in 2016? "Enough already! There are plenty of other American swimmers!" As for the Blue Devils, they make it look so goshdanged easy, and that frustrates me and others w/ whom I've discussed this (my mailbox was full of the "BS" word today). I told MC that watching the 1985 Garfield Cadets or the 1992 Cavaliers was amazing, because it was so obvious that what they were doing was so hard. It doesn't look that way w/ BD which isn't itself a criticism. All week, the upstairs visual judges gave the Devils HUGE spreads. It wasn't because this guy likes jazz or this one judges WGI. MC: "The best thing that happened to us in '84 was that fall in Whitewater. Everybody really understood how hard it was then." Incidentally, interviewing him was one of the coolest things I've ever experienced as a (supposed) journalist. This guy had BOTH hands in the reinvention of marching music. Thankfully, YouTube offers young DCI fans a taste of HOW we got where we are TODAY. ------>And I wish somebody would post the complete 1986 BD show. THAT...blows away '09, '10, '12. Edited August 12, 2012 by Tad_MMA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drumguy50 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 This about sums it up! Why do we have Visual GE or Visual Analysis captions if they are all judged from WGI people and at many times only based off of feedback from what the guard is doing? There is a Guard caption for a reason, and it makes me very worried for the future of design when I hear staff or professionals associated with the activity agree with me. WGI has it's own season, it's own product, and a rabid fanbase just like WGI. There is no need to merge the two creatures like we've seen over the past few years. Many DCI fans (read: the paying public which keep DCI alive) are not WGI fans, nor want to be. The same is true for WGI fans when it comes to DCI. Guess what Mike, brass players and players need something to do in the winter too. Who cares? Could not agree more. The worst thing that happened to DCI was a few years ago with the added WGI do what your heart tells you method of design and the accompanying influx of WGI judges. I am told that all 3 caption people for visual are all WGI judges. perhaps at least some balance their would be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 but the interpretation of those new rules and systems haven't given the fans the desired and hoped effect we were looking for. Maybe with the Judge Training and Selection and Program Standards and Expectations ... we will get the result we want. However, that doesn't mean the general needs of the fan will be met with satisfaction. We don't truly know what the vision of Mr. Cesario is, or how that will effect change within the DCI judging system. I'm honestly curious: what do the fans want? Do they want Carolina Crown to win 2012 DCI with a sub-Championship level Visual Program? Do they want a corps to win DCI that is not at clean as another corps?! I legitimately want to know what fans want. I assume people are not fans of Blue Devils 2012, and would rather not have that show win DCI. If that's the case, what's the next step? Telling designers what they can and can't do based on nothing other than super broad crowd appeal? Not rewarding a corps who marches near perfection and has a brilliantly coordinated show design because they don't get as big of a standing ovation as another corps?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Supersop - totally agree. Nothing changed at all with the new system. Placements were actually •more• static this year than past, and the same corps in the same order with more or less the same scores. Mike How can placement be both MORE static and have the same corps in the same order with more or less the same scores?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmhurstmusiced Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Well it is interesting, but I think it's more of Michael just talking than anything relevant or even truthful for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammaster Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqe2ACfFap4& Godzilla! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie1223 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 How about DCI spends some time going into detail with scoring. Give examples, written and video , of segments of different corps shows that achieve highest box scores. Explain why that is achieving the highest scores and do this for every caption. Let's get everyone on the same page when it comes to the REASONS for the scores. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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