DCA I&E Mini Corps judging

[Gary Matczak]

If you want the real problem with why some Mini corps are dropping out, it may well be the royalties issue. It's real money to pay to people unless you arrange public domain pieces or find guys like Don Ellis who stated in his will that no royalties were to be paid if the music was used for educational purposes.

I'd think if you'd want to talk to the people about it, ask them. I don't know of any DCA Judge that would blow you off if you had questions about your team's performance and what you could to to improve if you asked them. Sit down and talk over a beer.

BITD yes, the judges were DCA panel people who were glad to do it to help out. Yes, the room was free, but helping with Minis and I and E was part of the spirit and fun of the weekend.

But seriously, the cost of royalties aint hay. When people complain about dull original music they don't recognize, thank ASCAP et al for the fees they want now because the recording industry in the internet age isn't raking in the buxx like it used to.

FYI, you still need to pursue the paperwork on public domain stuff,...........

[JimF-LowBari]

Unless things have changed recently - they are credentialed DCA judges who are not working the field contests. They do get some perks, such as show passes and a hotel room for a night or two.

Hope the hotel is closer than mine was....

[doctortelco]

I haven't seen any of the mini-corps live. After seeing this thread I went to the DCA fan network and watched the mini-corps contest. To say the least I was impressed with what I saw and heard. I think I may order the CD.

Scott Smith

[BigW]

FYI, you still need to pursue the paperwork on public domain stuff,...........

And prove "Hot Cross Buns" isn't someone's intellectual property.

[LegalEagle50]

IP law is the new big unknown. Ot literally changes day by day based on each new ruling. As someone who watched a whole mini-corps' season formed from start to fonish, I widh each and every one of you luck and continued prosperity. Too many have disappeared these last couple of years.

[BIG BARI 3]

I believe that DCA CREATED the mini's because the ensembles were getting too large. Unfortunatly, I don't believe they saw the popularity of them getting this big. If not for the mini's I would not have started coming on Friday nights.

What started out as a beer bash I&E has now become a serious venue for members of NON COMPETITIVE corps to perform. They pay their entry fees and hope to get not only applause from whatever audience is there, but a little input from the judges. If you look at this year's performers you will see a LOT of non DCA and non competitive corps members. DCA should be applauded for encouraging this to help keep the activity growing!

But methinks they may have created a monster!

The mini's DO have another venue with the Buglers Hall Of Fame shows. In fact, you did not see these corps at the DCA show at all. The DCA mini show is the true championship because it can, and does attract mini's from throughout North America!

So, if the mini's need to become another class of corps in DCA so be it! I believe that most of them would love to compete on a regional basis at DCA shows,TO GET INPUT TO IMPROVE THEIR PERFORMANCE.

And by the way, if DCA is not getting a percentage of the concessions at the championships, somebody better look into that!

[Gary Matczak]

And prove "Hot Cross Buns" isn't someone's intellectual property.

believe it or not, DCI made us get paperwork for Grand Old Flag and Stars and Stripes Forever,............so we now have permission in perpituity,........

[captcastile]

DCA's rep is changing. The amount of beer talk on here is maybe 10% of what it was when this place started. And hey, if Hop started a DCA corps, a guy who has trashed DCA pretty loudly in places he didn't think he could be heard, you know the game has changed.

Ok so the minis are held to a higher standard. Fine. But the approach by several of it's members on here do more to hurt them then help them.

Here's an idea. if minis want tapes, a stage etc.....let them put up the $$ to rent the place, and charge admission. They can split the proceeds liek DCA member corps do from finals weekend and share points etc.

Personally, like others have said, and egads, Joey and I are agreeing more and more in here , the need to win has hurt the genre. My first I&E I went to was in 97 or 98, the big block party in Allentown. Tons of fun. Pretty much went every year until 2007. it got old. People partying made it hard to hear the corps play, it was confusing getting from place to place ( inside, outside, across the street), and then after Star won again, the amount of wah wah wah....I said no more. I'm not alone in that thought process.

The quest to win has hurt mini corps, and I'll tell you why. one of them changed the game, and few adapted yet continue to #### and moan. You want to beat Star? Do what they do, but better! if your membership can't, then create rules that work to your advantage. How many rules proposals for on the field side of the activity were done because someone saw a way to win doing it? many.

Exactly what rules were added to give one Corps an advantage over another? How many new rule proposals have been added? Since I've been doing Mini's (1998) the only rules I know of is 6-10 minutes of music, 21 members performing. They did modify to not count the Conductor as a performing member. What are the "many" that you are talking about? Why are you even commenting on this thread? By your own admission, you haven't been to a show since "2007" and pretty much everything you post about mini's is negative.

Nobody would pay to see a Mini Show? What's your point? Did you go to Bridgeport a couple of weeks ago? Calling the crowd sparse would be an exageration. How's Harrisburg working out for ya? Drum Corps is hurting everwhere, with a few exceptions.

Mini Corps is an added attraction to the Championship weekend, we get it,but are we so friggin wrong to ask for some feedback? Last time I checked, feedback was a good thing! Mass Brass was as close to the top as you get in the "Star" era and even then we were asking for feed back, not because we thought we beat Star or could beat Star ( which in my mind is virtually impossible), but to see what the judges thought about our performance. We already knew what the crowd thought, but to hear another voice is not a bad thing and could help the following year as far as tweaking this or that. No we don't play for the judges as another poster suggested may be happening, we play for ourselves and the crowd first and foremost! But thanks to the negativity from you and some of your cohorts, a simple question has taken on a life of its own which gives us the "feedback" we need to possibly fix the situation. So Thanks

[Jeff Ream]

Exactly what rules were added to give one Corps an advantage over another? How many new rule proposals have been added? Since I've been doing Mini's (1998) the only rules I know of is 6-10 minutes of music, 21 members performing. They did modify to not count the Conductor as a performing member. What are the "many" that you are talking about? Why are you even commenting on this thread? By your own admission, you haven't been to a show since "2007" and pretty much everything you post about mini's is negative.

Nobody would pay to see a Mini Show? What's your point? Did you go to Bridgeport a couple of weeks ago? Calling the crowd sparse would be an exageration. How's Harrisburg working out for ya? Drum Corps is hurting everwhere, with a few exceptions.

Mini Corps is an added attraction to the Championship weekend, we get it,but are we so friggin wrong to ask for some feedback? Last time I checked, feedback was a good thing! Mass Brass was as close to the top as you get in the "Star" era and even then we were asking for feed back, not because we thought we beat Star or could beat Star ( which in my mind is virtually impossible), but to see what the judges thought about our performance. We already knew what the crowd thought, but to hear another voice is not a bad thing and could help the following year as far as tweaking this or that. No we don't play for the judges as another poster suggested may be happening, we play for ourselves and the crowd first and foremost! But thanks to the negativity from you and some of your cohorts, a simple question has taken on a life of its own which gives us the "feedback" we need to possibly fix the situation. So Thanks

no I wasn't in CT......and to be honest, I'm not sure the mini's were the draw.

as for paying customers...well...how many years did Harrisburg run the mini show? i proved my point.

[wishbonecav]

If I were one of the judges, or the one who assigned them, this would be a tough pill for me to swallow.

Which "CORPS" (plural) got their butt handed to them? Speaking in general for all for the concerns and complaints of the few is not a fair approach.

Mass Brass seems to have a problem and a few members seem to believe that the judges thought they "sucked" or that they were underscored.

So what good is a tape? Truly.

Would taped comments change the outcome or become more fodder for those who already have their mind made up on the situation? My opinion is that a tape supporting their comments ("great job", "aggressive charts" and score/placement) would only be the centerpiece for additional scrutiny and derision if the number on the paper didnt match the member's opinion of themselves - "oh that's BULLSHTI!...this guy doesnt have a CLUE!" - and so forth.

The original post calls out the judges as unaccountable, disinterested, disrespectful, incompetent and with an axe to grind. If only they made tapes, then we could "understand" why they were all these things? Please.

I dont see that as a roundtable conversation with mutual respect and nodding heads among cool and collected persons. Especially if it STARTS by ascribing these attributes to the adjudicators and leaving them in a position to either prove a negative or attempt to sway people whose mind is already made up.

I see the comments and the score and the audience response as plenty of feedback. I also see the feedback from this group as something to be reckoned with as well.

This isnt a plea for understanding. It's sour grapes, just like JAM said. Why didnt we win? Or place higher? "Our scores"...blah blah blah. If between now and DCA 2013 (350 days) you cant get some feedback, through DCA or sending a note to Rich or Bob, then shame on you. I dont know if i was just called a bunch of names in public if I'd be too interested in helping out. Regardless, this has been fermenting over years of "declining scores" so maybe that call or email should have been made long ago.

We've been down this road before. And if the contest part has taken the place of the fun to the point where this kind of negativity surrounds it, it's time to go back down the road towards fun. If that's "not worth the trouble" then that is a decision each of the groups can make on their own.

Someone thinks they "deserved better." I think the judges who volunteered their time and expertise deserved better than to be told to "clean up their act and show a little respect".

It's mini-corps, for God sake....a fun event among family and friends. If this is really what it's come down to then maybe we give in to the weight of negativity and decide not to have it at all.

Is it not time to hold the Mini Corps judges accountable for their scores? Why are they not taped with info that we can use for next year? The Mass Brass scoresheets said, "great job", "aggressive charts" ect...and oh yeh, here's your score "you suck". What's that all about? Not a shred of information that could help us for next year...nothing. Our scores have been declining the last couple of years and we're not sure why and have been giving "0" feedback from the judges. If the judges don't want to be there or it is a major incovenience for them, then maybe DCA should find people that do want to be there. How long would it take to comment or give us feedback, 1 minute or so.....considering the amount of time and effort everyone puts into their shows, I don't think that's too much to ask. Time for a change, time for the judges to show a little respect for the performers that have worked hard all year for this show. All the Mini Corps deserve better! People were asking "where have all the Mini Corps gone?" simple.....Corps were getting their ##### handed to them and no one told them why, add that to the time and expense it takes to get on the field or stage and there's your answer, it's not worth the trouble. Unless the Judges can clean up their act and show a little respect for the Corps that are competing, the numbers will only get worse.

Edited September 10, 2012 by wishbonecav