JimF-LowBari Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 A number of corps, albeit in DCI, are associated with Boy Scouts Explorers and/or Venturing. How comprehensive are the background checks through the BSA? Was wondering that myself after I posted. No idea if the BSA checks are mandated to be done a certain way or left up to the individual Councils or Troops. Main reason why I'm not sure is because a stink was recently raised about BSAs ban on gays/atheists and being in the local United Way. A few responses from people connected with Scouts on how the Troops know if a Scouts is gay/atheist seemed to contradict themselves. Is it "don't ask, don't tell", "do ask, do tell", or is it "long as we don't see it, maybe being in Scouts will help them". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpsBuff Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 1st... what I'm going to say applies only to all aged corps... DCI as it is a youth organization is another bag of worms... normal caviat... speaking for myself, have no particular info, just years of experience yadda yadda DCA is a loose organization of all aged drum corps... it's purpose is to provide rules, judges, assist in finding show sponsors and run an annual championship... It has been serving these purposes well since 1964 (Having been founded in 1963 and the first championship was 1965) - we have almost 50 years successful track record to look at. Anything to do with this previous discussion is UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL CORPS... DCA is not the catch all to be the policeman... Each corps - if they allow members under 18 - should have a policy which protects those members... period... by definition... all ages allowed... DCA leaves it up to each individual corps to set any or no age limits... they vary considerably from corps to corps... for instance - when I was corps director - we had a strict no one under 18 rule... but as director, I had the freedom to waive that rule if there was an over 18 member of the family involved with the corps to take responsibility for the youth... I took this rule very seriously... in every under 18 instance, the parent was also marching and was the responsible party... which begs the question... since we did have under 18, would I have allowed anyone on the sex offender list to participate in any way - NO NO NO NO NO NO but that was up to me and my corps..... that is how I understand it is now.... and before anyone says - but they just KO'd Renegades... totally different thing... damage to a hotel at championships is absolutely detremental to the overall organization and definitely something the contest committee must deal with and is within their prescribed area of expertise... they did... end of story... So bottom line, if you find that any corps accepts under 18's and wish to question that corps as to their policy - knock yourself out but let's stop dragging dca into this... that's just not the way all aged corps work... As for the sex offender list? Times change... entire societies change... it is impossible to argue against anything that protects children - especially since it is now very well documented that most REAL sex criminals are NOT capable of being rehabilitated... That being said, the case that caused all this bruhaha is one I'm familiar with... That person is despicable (in my opinion) and I would never hire him to teach my drum corps because like a teacher who has sex with a student - he violated that sacred trust and can NEVER be fully forgiven. Now having said that - it was twenty freakin' years ago... while we can argue that a 15 year old can not consent - the fact is it was consentual sex, what we call statuatory rape... Yes it was a serious violation and the worst case of poor judgement, but he served his penalty - it is not like he's about to do that again or is not capable of rehabilitation... so there are sex crimes and there are sex crimes... frankly, what this person has to go through for the rest of his life, I find a bit much considering the facts of the case... but... like I said, the laws protect children - if you screw up bad enough and get included... tough! and... before some of you who are on your high horses about all this looking for "legislation" and whatever to correct what you perceive to be an unforgiveable situation... I can name some VERY big superstars in this very activity who - if the laws were the same then as now - would also be on the sex offenders list for having been caught having consentual sex with minor students... To our shame, we had a very bad habit of sweeping that stuff under the table to avoid any possible scandal that would have a worse effect on the child than the consentual sex did... I only wonder if that problem has been fixed but corrected to the extreme? FINALLY, after 60 years of working in this activity - in both junior and all aged corps - in every capacity, performer, instructor, judge, corps management, circuit management - I feel I have the knowledge and experience to say that this activity is cleaner and safer than most... and the refusal of you guys to let go of this is causing a trail for google to follow that tells parents "drum corps is NOT safe for my child" - SHAME ON YOU PEOPLE... drum corps is far safer than gymnastics... far safer than cheerleading... far safer than the boy scouts, and heaven forbid one darn sight safer than having your child become an alter boy... IF YOU'RE a potential parent reading this... trust me, this is a wonderful and safe activity for your child... It was good for my parents, it was good for me and my brothers, it was great for my children and I suspect it will be great for my grandchildren - 3 of whom started musical instruments this year as 9 year olds and I suspect with their parentage, they too will eventually be involved... you see in the end, it's only human nature... your children will tend to love what you loved... it worked in 2 out of 3 kids for me and I suspect I'll get to watch some of my grandchildren thrive in the activity... I respectfully ask the DCP guardians to consider closing this thread as against their policy and not in the best interest of drum and bugle corps. If it's a loose based organization and policing is up to the individual corps, than how can the organization say "we have the power to ban you" in one case and "it's not up to us to police you" in another? 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 If it's a loose based organization and policing is up to the individual corps, than how can the organization say "we have the power to ban you" in one case and "it's not up to us to police you" in another? I just pictured that as a question in court... +1 Andy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegalEagle50 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 It makes no sense at all that a parent organization has the right to say one and not the other. Taking a bury your head in the sand approach no longer works. This is too important of an issue. The idea some people think it isn't important, those people are seeing that 1 single lawsuit, especially if it were the case that the corps was aware of a registered sex offender in their midst, could destroy not only a corps, but the parent organization. There is a legal term "depraived indifference". I hope it would never come to that. Look at it from this perspective. From what Tom said DCA is aware of certain circumstances but it allowing those corps to self police themselves. Something happens while a show is occurring at a school. The police ask for a list of every member, and staff member there. As they run the names they find A, B, and C whose names come up on the sex offender registry but not on their local/state records because the those people aren't from their state. Who will be the 1st people questioned, even held, for further investigation? And then those names and the corps name are released in a newspaper article about what occurred....Even if it ends up that none of those people were involved in what happened, that they are comepletely innocent of what happened at that particular show and it was someone else who did it, how many of you think that school is going to host a show next year? Or even a show in that general area? People won't just boycott the activity because of it. They will speak actively against it because it comes down to the average parent simply does not want THAT in their backyard. Yes, that is a supposed situation, but it is happening elsewhere in other activities, so to think it won't happen to ours.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChgoVanguard Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 far safer than the boy scouts, and heaven forbid one darn sight safer than having your child become an alter boy... The Boy Scouts are the perfect example of an organization trying to keep sexual preditors out. They have lost massive donations because of this stance. Quite a slam on "alter" boys. How about "alter" girls? I'll pray for you at the ALTAR next Sunday, Tom. (HA!) I'm the last one to deny that the Catholic Church hasn't caused a lot of grief. But I do believe drum corps (or is that "corpse") have caused some grief, also. It's because of "deep pockets" that the Church gets sued as much as it does. It will be a real shame if this spins out of control and causes the demise of drum corps as we know it. I just wish both parties would come clean and tell us all what really happened. Period. Until that happens--the rumors will make a bad situation worse. CMHs59 and Drum Corps Planet: You should be very careful bringing the Boy Scouts into this discussion given the DCP Terms of Service. You can disclaim DCP six ways to Sunday, but the fact you encouraged this thread by moving it from FB to DCP leaves you open for further scrutiny. Reading through this thread, do you think the content complies with the DCP Terms of Use 5. Member Conduct? And further, to those of you that post about knowing this or knowing that about a registered sex offender,call the police and report it if you think there is something wrong. Let the police vet out if this person is breaking the Sex Offender Legislation in their state. Otherwise, you're no better than Joe Paterno and all the others that knew and decided not to call the police. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmhs59 Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 CMHs59 and Drum Corps Planet: You should be very careful bringing the Boy Scouts into this discussion given the DCP Terms of Service. You can disclaim DCP six ways to Sunday, but the fact you encouraged this thread by moving it from FB to DCP leaves you open for further scrutiny. Reading through this thread, do you think the content complies with the DCP Terms of Use 5. Member Conduct? And further, to those of you that post about knowing this or knowing that about a registered sex offender,call the police and report it if you think there is something wrong. Let the police vet out if this person is breaking the Sex Offender Legislation in their state. Otherwise, you're no better than Joe Paterno and all the others that knew and decided not to call the police. "I" did NOT bring the Boy Scouts into this discussion! AND--I didn't know this was ever on FB! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChgoVanguard Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 "I" did NOT bring the Boy Scouts into this discussion! AND--I didn't know this was ever on FB! CMHS59: Your comment of: "cmhs59, on 15 October 2012 - 04:56 PM, said: far safer than the boy scouts, and heaven forbid one darn sight safer than having your child become an alter boy... You are right, CMHS59, you did not move this here. That was addressed to DCP. This discussion took place there and was moved here by a person representing DCP as an Administrator on FB. Michael New Re: DCA and legal standings of members, feel free to discuss in the serious topic going on over on our moderated main forums, http://www.drumcorpsplanet.com/forums/index.php/topic/154245-sex-offenders-being-involved-with-drum-corps/page__pid__3222576#entry3222576 - it's a little volatile for this sort of FB group. Thanks! Sex offenders being involved with drum corps www.drumcorpsplanet.com given the posts removed elsewhere, but given all that is going on in the real world with this issue as well as seeing how DCA is cracking down on thi... Like · · Unfollow Post · October 12 at 12:43pm via mobile Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff danchik Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 CMHs59 and Drum Corps Planet: You should be very careful bringing the Boy Scouts into this discussion given the DCP Terms of Service. You can disclaim DCP six ways to Sunday, but the fact you encouraged this thread by moving it from FB to DCP leaves you open for further scrutiny. Reading through this thread, do you think the content complies with the DCP Terms of Use 5. Member Conduct? And further, to those of you that post about knowing this or knowing that about a registered sex offender,call the police and report it if you think there is something wrong. Let the police vet out if this person is breaking the Sex Offender Legislation in their state. Otherwise, you're no better than Joe Paterno and all the others that knew and decided not to call the police. Sorry but Joe did report it and his superiors, with advise from counsel, did nothing,because the first time it was reported to the police,no charges were filed.'That' enabled the monster to continue for years until it hit the news. In this 'sue happy' day and age if you tell and are wrong you're looking at a lawsuit,if you don't tell you're looking at a lawsuit.I have freinds who longer tech at schools because someone is always finding offense to what you say or do.Its insane.But the Boy Scouts,whether you like them or not,do have a system inplace.Adults get background checks, have online training for youth protection and documentation.All leaders are mandated to take a series of courses before being accepted as leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kickhaltsforlife Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 Tom I disagree that you think DCA should do nothing about this and that it is up to the corps. While I agree that it is the corps responsibility I also believe DCA has the responsibility to mandate that background checks have to be done. I think it is reasonable that each DCA corps should have clearances for all admin, staff, and instructors and every member 18 and older. It really isn't that hard to do. To even step foot into a PA or NJ school in many cases you need clearance. I know to go observe a teacher for a couple hours in most PA schools I needed a child abuse check, criminal background check, FBI criminal background check (fingerprinting) and a recent TB test done. That was to be around children for a couple of hours. And yes, when I requested my visitors badge they asked for a copy of all 4. At three different school districts I went to. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toby Posted October 16, 2012 Share Posted October 16, 2012 The background checks are mandatory to teach in TN and WI, as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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