IllianaLancerContra Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I personally doubt DCI would be able to swing back the "other way" at anywhere close to the level it is at today, show and performance-wise. I doubt the potential members would want such an activity, and I also doubt that a small local geographic area would support such an activity at this point in time. I agree - the Genie has left the bottle concerning all local membership. I do remember Jodeen Popps book in 1979 talking about how most corps severely limited the number of non-local member so the corps could still perform in parades, etc over the off-season. In hindsight it was not probably not a good idea to drop the requirement. I don't know what will happen, but I believe that there is some tipping point where DCI will have too few corps for the touring model to work. At some point I fear we will see what that number is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeD Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I would say year in and year out that the classic troopers shirt is one of the top selling drum corps souvenirs. If it isn't THE top selling drum corps souvenir of all time, I'd be interested to know what is. Maybe this? or this...because it is just so true! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterA Posted October 23, 2012 Author Share Posted October 23, 2012 I would say year in and year out that the classic troopers shirt is one of the top selling drum corps souvenirs. If it isn't THE top selling drum corps souvenir of all time, I'd be interested to know what is. I am not saying their shirt is not popular, I have one myself, but I am talking over the course of the evening, at shows we have gone to, Troopers, along with many other corps booths, do not seem to have much traffic. I remember at least one show this summer, I don't remember seeing a single person buying a souvenir from Troopers, and only a couple of people I noticed put money in the gas fund can. My wife and I usually stop over to say hi and buy something from the guy running it. We came close to losing Troopers a few years ago, and it just seems a shame that more people aren't supporting them during the summer. But then you don't see a lot of people supporting the souvie stand of some of the other corps either, like Pioneer and Pacific Crest, and a lot of the corps that place in the lower half. This is not supposed to be negative about any of these corps, but more about the unequal support for the lower placing corps. Not only at the souvie booths, or in donations to the corps, but also in the stands during the early part of finals week, I would almost bet, with a few exceptions, that the top 6 corps usually have the top souvie sales(unless it is a year where BD or Cadets have annoyed the fans who don't buy as much from them that year) and the bottom 6 placing corps probably have the lowest souvie sales. Even 2 of the most popular corps who appear to be at the top of the souvie chain have had issued in the last 10 years. Yes, Phantom and Madison have both had public financial issues in the last decade, and they are probably 2 of the most popular corps still around today. So if these 2 corps can have financial issues, even with all the public support, just imagine how some of the lower placing, less supported corps must feel the crunch. And corporate support, which used to help a lot of corps, is dwindling. It is hard for corporations to support a drum corps, when they are also faced with layoffs and other financial issues themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimF-LowBari Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Maybe this? What the Hells' a dot? . . . . . . . s/guy who didn't have the guts to buy the "Drum Corps Sucks" t-shirt back in 1976. My mom would had made me quit and then killed me, or the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daave Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 As iconic as the Trooper brand is, I always cringe when I see that souvie rig and the way they present that brand. Maybe part of the issue is the current marketing of that brand and the way it is presented through that rig? My observation is that a fresh coat of paint (pun intended)may be in order. I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Detweiler Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 It's really none of my business, but I was always under the impression that Troopers were one of the most financially sound organizations in DCI. Of course, that was a few decades ago and it was just rumored, but... Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garfield Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Open Class corps DO get paid when they perform in a WC or blended show. They get about 40% of what a WC finalist gets, but they do get a check and visibility. Different story if it's an all-OC show. Pio fields a show each year because they refuse to spend what it takes to make the top 12. Their focus is the kids' experience and, in their view, any tour experience on a budget is better than no tour because you blew the wad the year before. There's no doubt that the top corps are driving the activity into spending more just to compete, and the judging sheets exacerbate that problem. But not every corps HAS to spend $800m to field a corps (ask Pio, or Troop). All corps finances and their spending is available for public view on the corps' 990's. It takes some time to wade through the vagaries allowed in 990 filings, but all the income and expenses are there if you dig for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cixelsyd Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 In the Glassmen post, they mentioned that income for the upcoming season will be approximately $550,000, but the cost of touring is going to be approximately $850,000, leaving them with a gap of $300,000. But after being around drum corps for the last 35 years, isn't this the norm for most drum corps? Aren't most of the corps expenses going to be around $850,000 for the summer? And most of them if you looked at their upcoming books for the season, would have similar incomes as well? So would it be that most corps at this point before the season looking at possible deficits of $200,000-400,000? Other than a few corps that have always been rumored to have tons of extra finances available(BD, SCV, Cadets and Cavaliers) aren't most corps in serious need of more funds than member dues, show fees, and merchandise are going to provide for the course of the summer? Yes, corps generally need to conduct their own fundraisers which, combined with donations, must fill that gap. When I look at the $550,000 number Glassmen are quoting, I am thinking that might not include any such external fundraising (consistent with their testimony that external fundraising efforts have been unsuccessful lately). I really wonder how corps like Troopers, Pioneer, Pacific Crest, Mandarins, and many others survive. At shows, you very seldom see many people looking at their souvenirs or dropping money into their fuel funds. where as booths like Cavaliers, you literally have to break into line just to purchase a t-shirt from them. Often, these corps survive by living within their means - developing innovative ways to keep expenses below the world class norm. Conversely, innovative ways to generate more revenue can be just as helpful if you find any. In any case, the field is tilted in favor of the winners. Some of this is natural and unavoidable. Winners will generally sell more souvies than lower placing corps. But there are many other ways in which top DCI corps are given additional, unnecessary advantages. Did you know that top corps get preferential souvie stand positioning at major shows? Do all WC corps receive the same pay, or is it still broken up like is used to be where the top 8 received a certain amount, the 9-14 corps received a different amount, and everyone else below received a lower amount? Also, do corps get more in appearance fees at regionals like Atlanta, and San Antonio? Appearance fees, from what I have heard, are the same for all world class corps. However, that is only part of the money corps receive from DCI. An even larger amount is paid out post-season as revenue sharing, divided by a formula heavily weighted by competitive placement in both the current season and past seasons. It would be nice if any of the corps would be willing to share information about finances. That will never happen. I think if the general public knew precisely how much revenue shares favor the top corps, there would be rioting in the streets. It would be interesting to see if a corps budget from a season is $1,000,000, exactly where that money was spent. And their income for the season where the money actually came in from. If we could start to see some patterns, we might be able to prevent some corps from going under. We do see patterns already. Over the years, we have heard stories of corps at all levels having financial crises and questionable management decisions. Through that all, how many corps placing in the top half of world class have folded, or even taken a year off? Zero. Now, how many in the bottom half of world class? And in the long run, it could also make the activity even more competitive. Yes, it would. But it appears that some directors of top corps do not want the activity to be more competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerriTroop Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I really wonder how corps like Troopers, Pioneer, Pacific Crest, Mandarins, and many others survive. At shows, you very seldom see many people looking at their souvenirs or dropping money into their fuel funds. Souvenir sales at shows, for some corps, is a very small income stream, and it is understood as such by their management. If this is understood at the management level, then the management of these corps will takes low souvie sales expectations into account when creating the next projected budget in the cycle. However, having a souvie sales program that breaks even is worth it for perception and marketing reasons. Let's look beyond the shows, though. Most of us out here in fan-land have no idea how much is going on in the internet market in terms of souvenir sales and general fund donations. There are also things like endowments and long term investments that may be generating interest income for corps that are not part of the public face of the corps. And then there are the non-touring fundraising bits: bingo, annual fundraiser dinners, etc. Anyway, souvie sales doesn't spell gloom and doom. People are going to swamp the souvie booths of the top contenders. That's just the nature of the game. The Astros (or as I lovingly call them, the l'Astros) probably didn't sell as much either, but it doesn't mean they don't have a financial model that is working or that they can't come out as a top contender at some point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexL Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 Here's a thought, how is Pioneer making it work. They're not always at the top of the food chain competitively, but they field a corps and make something happen. But again, it's obviously DCI's fault. To be blunt, theyre not fielding a competitive drum corps, not just 'not always at the top'. So i'm not sure you could say its working when year in year out theyre not even in the competitive game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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