If BD Wins, We Riot!

[BRASSO]

Because it's a stupid popularity poll. You don't like what's going on, your powerless to change it, so you try in a number of tact's to insult, demean, characterize and generally disrespect the efforts of one of our drum corps. You would do much better in supporting the one's you like, than wasting your efforts on spitting through the chain link fence.

Well, this is ironic position, coming from supporters of a Corps that supported the cut off of funds for Open Class Corps, ( talk about " insulting"," demeaning ", disrespectful " etc ) and now is caught in the cross hairs of national fans with their nationally perceived boring shows, and so now are resorting now to calling audiences " stupid " for expressing what they find as entertaining and " popular " to them. Yes, I say there is some " spitting" of late going on.

Edited July 29, 2013 by BRASSO

[CACTSC]

I would like to posit a simple question. Please take it at face value and no matter what you personally feel answer it as honestly as you can. THEN (because I know I will be accused of bias) please submit your questions and I promise I will answer as honestly as I can--even if it hurts.

A couple of us have been called on the carpet for suggesting, in some form or another, that the majority of people do not like BDs show this year.

Question:

Do you think (none of us have empirical evidence) that the Blue Devil's show is enjoyed by more than 33% of those who see it?

My answer is no.

Yes. Well over 33% of my friends enjoyed their performance at our local show this year. At our after party (over a hundred people) it was the big talk. Over half loved it, some more thought it was interesting. So I do have evidence from a portion of fans in the midwest. And out of the 3000 + at the show, no one booed the results, no one cursed, threw things or were disrespectful in any way. And it is an "old" drum corps crowd. Lots of dinos. So there you go.

[dcsnare93]

I believe that some of the booing is directly related to the perceived attitude that comes from BD. These attitudes are expressed by members who were posting "16" on their Facebook pages before the season started, or posting "FYWW" at the end of other seasons (Google for what it means if you want to), or belittling others who have openly, but respectfully, disliked their current production. The "entitled to a title" attitude may be good as an internal work ethic, but it sure as heck stinks as a method of public relations.

I'm copying and pasting below a reply that I made in another thread because I think it's exactly why the booing is happening:

What you are observing is not just about liking only one or the other of BD or Crown. I think there's a history here with BD in recent years. It goes something like this:

Those who have voiced dislike for the direction of BD are often scorned and assumed to be simply too unsophisticated to "get" BD. I personally see this from current and former members that I'm familiar with, and we've encountered it here on DCP, too. Personally, this particular attitude really grates on me. I have no problem with pride, with competitive chest thumping, with believing in the corps you are in and striving for the absolute best. But people don't have to be an ### about it.

So, to be clear: I don't think BD members work less than anyone else. I don't think they have an easier show than anyone else. I respect the work they do, but I don't respect the attitude. Part of your observation may be that some of us are tired of this part of the BD equation right now.

So basically - if people don't want the audience being jerks and booing, maybe the first step is to stop acting like some, or most of, the audience is your enemy.

FWIW, I've never experienced what you just described while interacting with BD (F)MMs, which I've done on many occasions. It's all rather anecdotal. Sure, there are some obnoxious BD fans, just as there are obnoxious fans of Crown, Cadets, etc.

[Granny Smith]

Because it's a stupid popularity poll. You don't like what's going on, your powerless to change it, so you try in a number of tact's to insult, demean, characterize and generally disrespect the efforts of one of our drum corps. You would do much better in supporting the one's you like, than wasting your efforts on spitting through the chain link fence.

Pish Posh. Now, you're just trying to roll around with me in the mud.

You previously accused me of judging the motives of others earlier and I offered a confession. Now, you're betraying your own standards by calling my motives into question and putting words in my mouth.

I'm about as powerless as the rest of us on this forum spilling our opinions. Your intolerance for opinions that differ from yours is unbecoming. Forums such as this only survive because of differing opinions. If we all agreed then a thread would last about 2 pages.

I could couch my opinions in a whole tangled mess of political correctness, but I prefer plain speech. Get used to it.

[Granny Smith]

Yes. Well over 33% of my friends enjoyed their performance at our local show this year. At our after party (over a hundred people) it was the big talk. Over half loved it, some more thought it was interesting. So I do have evidence from a portion of fans in the midwest. And out of the 3000 + at the show, no one booed the results, no one cursed, threw things or were disrespectful in any way. And it is an "old" drum corps crowd. Lots of dinos. So there you go.

Thank you. I appreciate your response.

[emc2]

Well, this is ironic position, coming from supporters of a Corps that supported the cut off of funds for Open Class Corps, ( talk about " insulting"," demeaning ", disrespectful " etc ) and now is caught in the cross hairs of national fans with their nationally perceived boring shows, and so now are resorting now to calling audiences " stupid " for expressing what they find as entertaining and " popular " to them. Yes, I say there is some " spitting" of late going on.

Need to break the funk.

[seen-it-all]

Hardly a week goes by that somebody doesn't remind us that the Blue Devils are like the Star of Indiana from 20 years ago.

To follow this analogy chronology, we'd have to assume that the Blue Devils are about to quit DCI competition soon.

No, we don't have to make that assumption, or any of the other assumptions you've made which followed it. What Star did after that season is irrelevant to what people are talking about here. The 1993 Star of Indiana had a very controversial show that put off a lot of fans at the time. This is a FACT as we all know. The 2013 Blue Devils have a very controversial show that seems to be putting off a lot of fans. This is also a fact. That Star's show has since gone on (in many fans eyes) to become one of the most influential shows of all-time is also a fact. It's certainly arguable that it is looked upon by most fans far more favorably today than it was back when it was performed. Whether that happens to the 2013 Blue Devils remains to be seen, but THAT is the comparison.

And for the record, the '93 Star of Indiana competed in 34 shows that summer, came in 1st place 30 times and 2nd place 4 times. They missed out on a DCI title by a tenth of a point. To date, the 2013 Blue Devils have competed in 25 shows and only finished 1st 9 times so far. They even have a 3rd place finish in there. Point being that Star won a whole lotta shows that year. And most importantly, it should be asked....if you had to pick which show had a larger impact on the drum corps activity in the last twenty years (whether you like that impact or not), would you say it was the 1993 Cadets of Bergen County who won DCI? Or the 1993 Star of Indiana who did not? I know what I'd say.

[Plan9]

Well, this is ironic position, coming from supporters of a Corps that supported the cut off of funds for Open Class Corps, and now is caught in the cross hairs of national fans with their nationally perceived boring shows, and so now are resorting to calling audiences " stupid " for expressing what they find as entertaining and " popular " to them.

Because that's what it is. So, tell me how do you parse out the "I love BD, but hate their show" folks? Or the "I get positively bilious every time I see a slanted Blue B on anything" folks? Or the more rare, "I hate BD, but I seem to like their show" folks. With the amount of rhetoric trotted out about BD, particularly in this thread, you are pissing in the wind if you think that was a legitimate poll. And judging from your continued toxic view of the TOC group, your vote would not be artistic in nature, anyway.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Plan9

[2muchcoffeeman]

To answer Granny's question: No.

I am fascinated by BD's production. I approach it the same way I might approach a piece of abstract art in the museum. It's not "pretty" or even pleasing to look at, but I might be rewarded by giving it some careful observation. There are disjointed parts within that I might recognize or associate with.

BD is not entertainment. BD is homework. When I watch their show, I feel like I'm taking an exam. When it's over, the sensation is not resolution, but relief.

Music (and dance) is nothing more than communication. It can be the most sublime form of communication, yes, but its purpose is to make some kind of human connection -- a feeling, a thought, a piece of information. Modern-day BD is less about communication and more about didactics. It is an exhibition of technical skill, not an attempt to connect with something inside me. Like everyone else, I appreciate the skill on display. But there are a lot of things in this world made with supreme skill -- dental equipment, tax-accounting software, handguns, parachutes, spinach souffle -- that I prefer to avoid.

BD's show feels like an act of defiance. We dare you to watch this. There is almost no attempt at invitation, no sympathetic quality. It's all one-way. It feels selfish. Brilliant, flawless selfishness.

[BRASSO]

Yes. Well over 33% of my friends enjoyed their performance at our local show this year. At our after party (over a hundred people) it was the big talk. Over half loved it, some more thought it was interesting. So I do have evidence from a portion of fans in the midwest. And out of the 3000 + at the show, no one booed the results, no one cursed, threw things or were disrespectful in any way. And it is an "old" drum corps crowd. Lots of dinos. So there you go.

Friends...100 or so... is anecdotal at best.

One that has access to Fan Network, or has been to a BD show the last 2 years outside of California ( and even Calif. this year ) can gauge for themselves the thousands of fans at attendance at numerous shows across the country. Rather than simple anecdotal assessment from as little as " 100 " or so local people, we have a much, much larger, more diverse, population , across many miles, and many ages, with diverse backgrounds to gauge interest with BD's show. The notion that most people in coast to coast attendances are really into BD 's show is simply being in denial, imo. People are absolutely entitled to like whatever it is they like, and dislike. But it serves no purpose to pretend that something in Drum Corps is popular with national audiences, when there is plenty of observable evidence to the contrary.

That said, I 'm from New England, and I can share the experience with the poster here that in decades of attending DCI shows in New England, I have never witnessed a Corps ever booed for a show performance. Ever. Not Star. Not BD. Not anyone. But... this does not mean that they havn't told me what they liked and did not like in shows afterwards either. But that was local, small, and anecdotal as well. A much broader and deeper and more valuable assessment is when its national in nature in the assessment.

Edited July 29, 2013 by BRASSO