If BD Wins, We Riot!

[Cappybara]

The shame in all of this is that the fans would very much like to enjoy the Blue Devils as they did before. I hear all the complaints about how they are playing to the sheets and such. I've lodged some of them myself. But in the end the Blue Devils could do everything they are doing now technically and the people would not care if they would just make the effort to entertain the crowd. Before you start replying that they do, be willing to honestly admit that the crowd they entertain has become a small minority. I was on the fifty yard line last night, mezzanine level, and saw the vast majority of that crowd on either side of me sitting on their hands. It's stunning considering the response Blue Devil shows used to bring. The Blue Devils I loved for decades brought entire stadiums to their feet multiple times during their shows much like Vanguard and Crown did last night, and finished every performance to full standing ovations. I know there is that old and tired argument that we are just haters, but that argument does not fly in the face of recent history. The Cadets went down the road of esoteric shows with all the talking and rediculous props and fans complained about it profusely. Once they turned the mikes off and started doing more fan friendly shows, the love for them immediately returned, along with two more championships. It's not the corps that's the problem, its the design. But it is becoming all the more apparent year after year that the staff in Concord does not seem to care what the fans think. I wonder if they realize that they are not only doing a disservice to the fans, but also to their members. I heard for myself from a member of the corps last night that it is very discouraging to learn you have won not by hearing the scores, but by hearing the fans boo the results of those scores. The Blue Devil's staff has the power to change this. Given recent history, I have serious doubts that they will.

This x10000. I have no issue at all with the Blue Devils. I have an issue with their shows. If Crown started playing shows like BD's (and this year they're starting to approach that level of weird...), then I'd stop liking Carolina Crown. I don't think ANYONE hates BD as an organization. They simply don't like their shows. There are plenty of enthusiasts who love BD's quirky gold-winning shows but unfortunately that can't be said by the majority of people buying to tickets to watch these corps. For the sake of the members who march in BD every year, I do hope the designers choose to go back to classic DCI shows.

[scout9193]

Disagree. Are you saying that these kids are ready for the real world the same as a 30 year old who's gone through college, worked a job of 10 years, is married with with three kids? I think not.

It's one thing to treat them as adults helping them grow, it's another to expect them to be adults. Have you hung out at the mall lately? :rolleyes:/>/>

...And I disagree with you respectfully but wholeheartedly. As you generalized with "these kids" allow me to do the same with "a great many". There are a great many 18 year olds marching..there are also a great many 18 year olds in the military who have sent rounds downrange in anger and have seen/experienced things through the military/combat that a 30 year (and me as a 41 year old) would be overwhelmed with. These folks are expected to be adults and the great many rise to that challenge. I see no reason- certainly to a lesser degree- we couldn't expect those in drumcorps to be the same way in the face of their respective adversity, frustration, angst, etc.

I am not trying trying to compare the two activities other than to say if we can have a great many 18 year olds fight and die then booing some others is not a bad thing/end of the world. As a father myself I am all for helping younger generations grow; however, at some point they need to realize disappointment and hurt feelings are regretable but very real parts of life.

As I type this it brought back distinct memories of my age out year & the boos that Star heard. I also remember talking to members/friends in Star who were ticked--perhaps even a bit confused- that it was happening. However, I also know they channeled that frustration and come finals were so keyed in on kicking butt and competing for their fellow members (I recall it almost being an "us versus the world" mantra ) they ended up putting out one of the most memorable shows I've ever seen. They flipped the script as it were--and in the process grew a bit and gave drumcorps a show that is still talked about and measured up to..boos be ######.

CM

Edited July 29, 2013 by scout9193

[BRASSO]

If BD wins, we huff and puff on the forum for a bit. Then most of us end up finding ways to like BD's production. The crowd has been ready for a new champion for a few years yet, however Crown has some time to prove if they're ready to be that champion. Devils may not be the champ DCP wants, but they're the champ DCP needs.

I really don't care where a Corps finishes. I like a show, or I don't like a show.. or something in between, it matters not where they place. I don't think DCP needs the BD to win or lose. This site will have things to praise about, complain about, want clarification on, 150 other things, you name it, whether BD repeats or doesn't repeat. Just look at the threads on here now. 90% of them have little to do with BD at all. In the broader context of Drum Corps, BD isn't even all that big a topic. We have several other sections on this board, and nobody cares a wit about the 2013 Blue Devils, one way or the other on those sections of DCP. This thread is about BD, and so BD is naturally discussed on this thread.

Edited July 29, 2013 by BRASSO

[AlexL]

If BD wins, we huff and puff on the forum for a bit. Then most of us end up finding ways to like BD's production. The crowd has been ready for a new champion for a few years yet, however Crown has some time to prove if they're ready to be that champion. Devils may not be the champ DCP wants, but they're the champ DCP needs.

They may not prove it according to the incredibly flawed judging system, but in the eyes of the audience they proved it a long, long time ago.

[ApathyJones]

Whoa.. slow down there, Cowboy, you're at too much of a giddy up gallop requesting me too many " things to prove ". Bring your horse and you to a stop for a moment and I tell you what I said:

My central observation here was that BD's show is boring for most people in coast to coast audiences. I make this observation based upon personal observation at shows, from several observable and quite detectable audience responses to their show both visually and auditorily on Fan Network. Such an assessment does not require me to " get into everyone's mind " as I have already acknowledged to you on here above that there are some people, like you, that love and enjoy the 2013 BD show this year. I certainly recognize that some people are jealous of BD's success, and that there are people out there that don't like BD for 1000 other reasons. I don't speculate on the reasons WHY BD's show is not liked by a lot of people. Thats not in my domain.Thats not my call. I only point out that BD's shows of late are disliked by a lot... a LOT... of people from coast to coast. But so what ? Why does this anger you or others so much when this seemingly inocuous and perhaps undeniable assessment is made ? There are still LOTS of other shows to like, some of whom you might dislike.. and you are likewise entitled to that dislike assessment as well with those shows if thats your opinion. More people from Coast to Coast like the Troopers show more than the Blue Devils show. But few of them that I've observed are telling us that the Troopers should be placing ahead of the Blue Devils. They are simply expressing to us... in a very observable and detectable manner... which of these Corps shows they find more entertaining. And whats so wrong with their expressing this preference ?

I'm not "angry", I just can't stand when the people on these forums slap on the blinders and can't admit to themselves that they are biased against BD because they are beating their "team". BD is not purposefully trying to make you not enjoy Drum Corps. They are putting out a product that attempts to do something a little different than what the corps around them do and that is targeted to a group of people that enjoy what they are doing while trying to be as competitive as possible. If you read carefully, usually the ONLY thing us "BD honks" are replying with is trying to explain to people that the organization is NOT trying to ruin drum corps, or that they don't care about the fans, or that they are trying to only play for the judges. All of that is obvious crap and is just sour grapes from people that are mad that their team isn't winning or wahtnot. It is incredibly frustrating to hear the same argument over and over and then when someone who actually has facts comes in and says "Hey wait, that isn't true...this is" it does absolutely nothing to help the matter. The very next post is the same old "I really respect how talented they are, but BD is trying to ruin the entire drum corps experience for everyone! WAHHHH why isn't Crown winning??" It is so obvious but people just can't accept it and so they come on here with like minded individuals and ##### and moan.

And be honest, if the Troopers were beating Crown a lot of those same people would be hating the Troopers right now instead of BD and if BD was in 5th place instead of 1st, no one would be saying $^#$.

[brichtimp]

This x10000. I have no issue at all with the Blue Devils. I have an issue with their shows. If Crown started playing shows like BD's (and this year they're starting to approach that level of weird...), then I'd stop liking Carolina Crown. I don't think ANYONE hates BD as an organization. They simply don't like their shows. There are plenty of enthusiasts who love BD's quirky gold-winning shows but unfortunately that can't be said by the majority of people buying to tickets to watch these corps. For the sake of the members who march in BD every year, I do hope the designers choose to go back to classic DCI shows.

I think there is so much complexity and demand to BD's show this year that it is a very challenging production for even the best judges to capture and consistently evaluate. That said, I also think that Carolina Crown (despite the arguably insipid love story verbiage) has a show that can still win, but only if they can really clean their marching and some of the very audible battery 'thick' moments. Cadets are the dark horse in my mind, but I have gained new appreciation for Barber's 1st Symphony for sure.

[jjeffeory]

If we're the generation that's singlehandedly destroying America, what does that say about you, the generation that instilled our values in us?

It probably says that they really REALLY loved you and wanted a better life for you than they had, just like their parents did for them. But now their over indulgence has become the "norm" and not really sustainable? Something like that?

[Granny Smith]

I really don't care where a Corps finishes. I like a show, or I don't like a show.. or something in between, it matters not where they place. I don't think DCP needs the BD to win or lose. This site will have things to praise about, complain about, want clarification on, 150 othere things, you name it, whether BD repeats or doesn't repeat. Just look at the threads on here now. 90% of them have little to do with BD at all. In the broader context of Drum Corps, BD isn't even all that big a topic. We have several other sections on this board, and nobody cares a wit about the 2013 Blue Devils, one way or the other on those sections of DCP.

I do care where Corps finish. The competitive part of drum corps is alluring to me. It keeps me interested over an entire summer and gives me something to analyze and enjoy.

So...will I boycott DCI if BD wins? No. But, if they do win, it will be disappointing to me. Then...I will get over it within about five minutes and move on to knitting and reruns of Walker, Texas Ranger.

[BRASSO]

I'm not "angry", I just can't stand when the people on these forums slap on the blinders and can't admit to themselves that they are biased against BD because they are beating their "team".

Well, if thats the case, then you should have addressed your angst with them, and not to me above. I expressed my observation on the 2013 BD show and it is totally unrelated to their beating any other team. So I don't know what else to tell you.

[Granny Smith]

I'm not "angry", I just can't stand when the people on these forums slap on the blinders and can't admit to themselves that they are biased against BD because they are beating their "team". BD is not purposefully trying to make you not enjoy Drum Corps. They are putting out a product that attempts to do something a little different than what the corps around them do and that is targeted to a group of people that enjoy what they are doing while trying to be as competitive as possible. If you read carefully, usually the ONLY thing us "BD honks" are replying with is trying to explain to people that the organization is NOT trying to ruin drum corps, or that they don't care about the fans, or that they are trying to only play for the judges. All of that is obvious crap and is just sour grapes from people that are mad that their team isn't winning or wahtnot. It is incredibly frustrating to hear the same argument over and over and then when someone who actually has facts comes in and says "Hey wait, that isn't true...this is" it does absolutely nothing to help the matter. The very next post is the same old "I really respect how talented they are, but BD is trying to ruin the entire drum corps experience for everyone! WAHHHH why isn't Crown winning??" It is so obvious but people just can't accept it and so they come on here with like minded individuals and ##### and moan.

And be honest, if the Troopers were beating Crown a lot of those same people would be hating the Troopers right now instead of BD and if BD was in 5th place instead of 1st, no one would be saying $^#$.

Well...first of all, I'm not sure I've read anywhere on this thread where anyone has accused BD of trying to ruin the activity.

But actually...I completely agree with your last sentence. The reason people (including myself) have our panties in a wad about this is that BD is winning (and P.S. It's not because they're beating "my corps"). Rather I think it's because we see a disconnect. (Please refer to the Rum Raisin Ice Cream analogy).