If BD Wins, We Riot!

[jjeffeory]

IMO, the nature of Dada was that no point was the point.

Crown, however, makes a point of asking "Impossible, you say?", then closing with music that lifts the spirit and suggests possibility and brightness. And the conflict of the scientific analysis of Einstein's mind is questioned in the love story, and resolved to the possibility in the closer.

Dada was very successful in demonstrating that there is no point to the conflict and one should just stop trying.

Crown's show leaves me positive hopefulness. Dada left me resigned that it's all useless, so why try to even make sense?

I know which show makes me feel better emotionally, with conflict resolved and in rapt anticipation that the impossible is actually possible. And it wasn't Dada.

Yes, I like to feel good when I watch drum corps. There's enough conflict in my life. I don't want to be entertained by more conflict that goes unresolved and doesn't, at least, gives me a reason to be hopeful.

The only thing I hoped for with Dada is that it would end. A final cutoff, or a bullet to the head, I didn't care. Just make it stop.

Haha!

I'm glad that you're looking at the greater "meaning" of the shows. I don't watch shows that way, I'm only analyzing the form of the show.

You know, I'm probably guilty of doing that with traditional radio music. I seldom think about the meaning of the words; I pay more attention to the chord progressions and musical structure. Hearing how you've parsed the show is Good stuff.

[jjeffeory]

corps having always written to sheets and as far as what the sheets are corps decide this , now how some interpret a sheet is another story and has been an issue from the beginning of drum corps..even worse BITD

I agree.

...and now we have so many fans & corps staffs who have gotten "smart" about how to improve their scores and decided that BD has figured out the sheets ( and the current interpretation of those sheets), so why not take elements from their show designs over this last few years and put their own spin on those elements?

[GUARDLING]

I agree.

...and now we have so many fans & corps staffs who have gotten "smart" about how to improve their scores and decided that BD has figured out the sheets ( and the current interpretation of those sheets), so why not take elements from their show designs over this last few years and put their own spin on those elements?

I think if you really look at it , you give BD way to much power and credit. BD has taken things from others, especially many HS bands. ( Godfather show ) done by a great band I judged which was also taught by a BD staffer a year before BD did it.

Not taking anything away from anyone just saying that you give to much credit for 1 corps changing the face of drum corps where its an effort on all corps to do what they choose or what they think will be a success for them. Common elements can merely be a trend and not necessarily set by the winner , just the times or staffs or that its 2013. some things that are done now will be out tomorrow and back again next month..or not...thats everything in life, fashion, music, theater,you name it!

[Fred Windish]

Let's not overlook the power of political influence.

Domineering, and yes, intelligent, well-spoken persons call the tune. The power guys of DCI are getting the DCI they demand. The 13th place corps director can make any statement he wants but most (including judges) are less inclined to pay attention to their insight than the vision of the biggest dogs with the most bite. The general public is a small player in all of this, if a player at all.

[jjeffeory]

I think if you really look at it , you give BD way to much power and credit. BD has taken things from others, especially many HS bands. ( Godfather show ) done by a great band I judged which was also taught by a BD staffer a year before BD did it.

Not taking anything away from anyone just saying that you give to much credit for 1 corps changing the face of drum corps where its an effort on all corps to do what they choose or what they think will be a success for them. Common elements can merely be a trend and not necessarily set by the winner , just the times or staffs or that its 2013. some things that are done now will be out tomorrow and back again next month..or not...thats everything in life, fashion, music, theater,you name it!

You may be right. I have given BD quite a bit of credit, but maybe it's the BOA circuit I should be concerned about.

I realize that these staffs work with groups in the fall as well, and they try something there. If it works well, then maybe we'll see it in DCI sometime...

Of course, it used to be the other way around...

I still believe that if SCV won DCI, for a year or two in a row, their design trends would be copied. That's how I've seen it work at least in the past.

Edited August 1, 2013 by jjeffeory

[skywhopper]

One of the things that I think make the two corps more similar in design is the pacing of the show compared to last year and the counting this year for Crown ( also the love speech) is similar in effect and feel to the background Dada stuff for BD last year.

You aren't the first to have brought this up, but I think Crown's (live or word-by-word triggered) narration is very different than the recorded voice BD used last year. BD's voice didn't map to the music at all. Crown's counting is part of the music, and the spoken stuff is at least somewhat synchronized with the music.

[jjeffeory]

You aren't the first to have brought this up, but I think Crown's (live or word-by-word triggered) narration is very different than the recorded voice BD used last year. BD's voice didn't map to the music at all. Crown's counting is part of the music, and the spoken stuff is at least somewhat synchronized with the music.

See, I don't speak french, so the voice over was more of a sound effect for me, just like the counting in Crown's show is more of a sound effect for me. So they fulfill a similar thing on the sheets.

The spoken stuff in Crown's show is difficult to ignore and is the focus for me, so maybe I'm the odd man out here...

I simply see all of it as an effort to fulfill something on the sheets.

Edited August 1, 2013 by jjeffeory

[saxfreq1128]

I think my original point is that it seems like something borrowed from the winning designs at BD ( Chair, Mirror, Poles, more Poles). It seems like many of the corps have decided that having a prop in the show will garner more points from the judging community. I mean that's what it looks like to me. ...and it's a conclusion that I would have come to as well.

Counterpoint:

The Cadets fielded park benches and lampposts in 1995. The fielded large, colorful dance blocks that they (very conspicuously) dragged onto/off of the field in 1995, 2002, and (kind of) in 2012. They fielded huge rotating panels in 1996, and again in 2006. 1999 saw taxi doors and large blue tarp. 2005 saw a door that become the centerpiece of the visual program. 2008 saw a talk show stage -- also a centerpiece. 2013 has given us yet more colorful panels. And if corps uniforms count as a prop -- which occasionally they probably should -- then Cadets 2005/2006 are leading examples of that.

Mind you, these are all years that the Cadets received high or very high (winning) scores in visual GE, regardless of whether or not they won the actual championship, which means that -- by your argument -- there has been incentive to use props since at least 1995... long before BD's chairs in 2009.

Not to mention that Carolina Crown fielded barnyard fences in 2007 -- again, before the chairs -- in a year that BD won the championship using 0 props whatsoever.

Edited August 1, 2013 by saxfreq1128

[jjeffeory]

Counterpoint:

The Cadets fielded park benches and lampposts in 1995. The fielded large, colorful dance blocks that they (very conspicuously) dragged onto/off of the field in 1995, 2002, and (kind of) in 2012. They fielded huge rotating panels in 1996, and again in 2006. 1999 saw taxi doors and large blue tarp. 2005 saw a door that become the centerpiece of the visual program. 2008 saw a talk show stage -- also a centerpiece. 2013 has given us yet more colorful panels. And if corps uniforms count as a prop -- which occasionally they probably should -- then Cadets 2005/2006 are leading examples of that.

Mind you, these are all years that the Cadets received high or very high (winning) scores in visual GE, regardless of whether or not they won the actual championship, which means that -- by your argument -- there has been incentive to use props since at least 1995... long before BD's chairs in 2009.

...and there are MORE instances where a corps has used some props here and there in the past from time to time... Those uses haven't resulted in over half of the top 12 using props the next year ( and a few from below using them too) until 2013. Looks like this year there are so many corps using props, and I believe that it is due to the continual use of props from the winning design, which happens to be BD.

Perhaps, as GUARDLING has suggested, I am giving BD too much credit. Maybe it's more a correlation than a causation?

Edited August 1, 2013 by jjeffeory

[saxfreq1128]

Looks like this year there are so many corps using props, and I believe that it is due to the continual use of props from the winning design, which happens to be BD.

Well, it makes most sense to look at who has the winning visual design, rather than the winning design overall, since we're talking about a strictly visual element of the show. Corps have had very successful visual programs featuring a heavy and well-integrated use of props for quite a while, now. BD's recent success is not the source of this, as much as DCP'ers would have us believe otherwise.

Edited August 1, 2013 by saxfreq1128