DCI BOD Drama....more to come?

[MikeN]

There are 2 things I have been searching for, and can't recall where I read them, if someone could help that would be great.

1. Hopkins has said recently that corps/staff's are not intended to be used for educational purposes. Anyone know where I would have read that?

From my reading, he said DCI should not be in the business of education, and to leave that to the corps. This is not a new idea - the G-7 proposal said the same thing. The corps should be the focus of the activity, and DCI (the organization) should exist solely to generate money to return to them.

It's not a bad idea, per se, and it would answer the question of where new revenue to support an ever-increasingly expensive tour is coming from. However, the other argument is that the not-explosive success of the ToC has shown us that the DCI brand is more powerful right now than any individual corps' brand. Centralizing "national" outreach activities would have a larger reach coming from DCI than The Cadets.

Mike

[charlie1223]

There are 2 things I have been searching for, and can't recall where I read them, if someone could help that would be great.

1. Hopkins has said recently that corps/staff's are not intended to be used for educational purposes. Anyone know where I would have read that?

2. Hopkins is now saying that there are too few corps, and not serving enough members. Wasn't he one of the people who wnated to move away from the 128 to 135, then finally to 150? Which is definately one of the reasons there are fewer corps. I find it incredibly interesting that many of the Div. 2/3 or open class as they are called now started vanishing when corps got larger, which then led to the "circuits" going away.

Seems to me that many of Mr. Hopkins' current complaints and views are completely contradictory to his views as recently as 10 years ago.

It also seems that he is using his position as ED of YEA as a pulpit to push his personal agenda, rather than the views of his staff, alumni, members, etc.

Just some questions/thoughts.

You are seeing everything from a very skewed perspective if not a very black and white one.

I doubt that Hopkins ever said that his staff was not intended for educational purposes or at least to the extent that that implies that the staff does not educate the members. The cadets would not be as good as they are if the staff did not educate. If that was said, which I think you definitely need to find a source because I think your paraphrasing is really misleading, then it was probably a focus on the staff's roll as mentors and coaches that goes along with their role as an educator (how to blow into your horn, vs. how to keep pushing when things get hard). I believe MikeN above might have given more of a context about DCI and not about corps/staff but I am still not sure.

Usually we see people complain that people are too stubborn as the times change so you're critique that Hopkin's viewpoints have changed in 10 years should be seen as a positive one. Taking on new information and adjusting one's opinion based on that new information. Maybe you can elaborate what exactly his change in position is and how that in itself reflects poorly on him? Because it doesn't.

And lastly your cirique of Hopkins using his position of ED of YEA as a pulpit seems way too dramatic. He has every right to an opinion of the Drum Corps that you do. You have the same access to media that he does. And the difference is that most of us are on here afraid to associate our opinions with our real name and make videos on youtube of our opinions etc... so yeah... he's more in the spotlight but its a spotlight that we all have created for him. That however is not a fault of him but of ourselves. You imagine him to be a preacher because he's the only vocal enough to be ascribed to such a position. If that characterization is to suggest that he shouldn’t have personal opinions irrespective of his employees, staff, members and organization, well, that’s not right.

Edited December 12, 2013 by charlie1223

[charlie1223]

one point...the regions were driven away. First out west, then DCE, then DCM. This was designed by the directors to happen

Is it callous of me to ask how you know this to be true? because I don't think I'll just take your word on it.

Edited December 12, 2013 by charlie1223

[charlie1223]

So you saying that the issue is extremely complicated without a black/white, right/wrong easy answer?! Crazy....

The problem is many people sacrifice nuance and complexity for one-liners and wittiness.

Edited December 12, 2013 by charlie1223

[Jeff Ream]

From my reading, he said DCI should not be in the business of education, and to leave that to the corps. This is not a new idea - the G-7 proposal said the same thing. The corps should be the focus of the activity, and DCI (the organization) should exist solely to generate money to return to them.

It's not a bad idea, per se, and it would answer the question of where new revenue to support an ever-increasingly expensive tour is coming from. However, the other argument is that the not-explosive success of the ToC has shown us that the DCI brand is more powerful right now than any individual corps' brand. Centralizing "national" outreach activities would have a larger reach coming from DCI than The Cadets.

Mike

Agreed. While the Cadets may have more of a reach because of USBands, the others do not have this option, and the USBands reach is only so large.

[Jeff Ream]

Is it callous of me to ask how you know this to be true? because I don't think I'll just take your word on it.

well DCM is very well documented...the D1 ( now World Class) Directors wanted out of it. you can see several threads about it on here. DCE was morphed into DCIAtlantic at the directoes choosing back in the late 90's, because of similar reasons ( probably have to search RAMD for that). Same with DCW becoming DCIPacific. It was about the now World Class corps being able to have more say and make more money. For instance in DCM, the paystructure was far more favaorable to Open Class and DCA corps than it would be under the DCi structure. In fact, I remember on RAMD way back a big explosion about how All Age corps wouldn't get paid at shows out west when the Renegades formed.

the regional circuits were all friendlier to the"little guys". That didn't sit. I mean hell, Hop put out a document in 1997 that pretty much points us though all of the changes that have happened to today, and shows several more of his wants ( he called them needs, and still does), like woodwinds. I don't have the link anymore, but that has been posted here as well.

My biggest issue is, when seeing something isn't working....why is it they never look back to see why it isn't working, and if maybe something that had been a business practice was better...go back to it! It's always change change change...well change isn't always better. I mean DCP is filled with posts blowing ratinales for things that have been changed to smithereens ( a&e bringing in more kids, fans etc).

And what Hop fails to see with woodwinds is sure...maybe more kids and their parents come. But there'd be an exodus of exisiting fans. The kind that won't go see Johnny and Susan when they are local. I'm talking the kind that see several shows a year and drop a lot on DCi related merchandise.Many fans have stayed and tolerated most of the changes, but adding woodwinds will drive many away.

[bill]

well DCM is very well documented...the D1 ( now World Class) Directors wanted out of it. you can see several threads about it on here. DCE was morphed into DCIAtlantic at the directoes choosing back in the late 90's, because of similar reasons ( probably have to search RAMD for that). Same with DCW becoming DCIPacific. It was about the now World Class corps being able to have more say and make more money. For instance in DCM, the paystructure was far more favaorable to Open Class and DCA corps than it would be under the DCi structure. In fact, I remember on RAMD way back a big explosion about how All Age corps wouldn't get paid at shows out west when the Renegades formed.

the regional circuits were all friendlier to the"little guys". That didn't sit. I mean hell, Hop put out a document in 1997 that pretty much points us though all of the changes that have happened to today, and shows several more of his wants ( he called them needs, and still does), like woodwinds. I don't have the link anymore, but that has been posted here as well.

My biggest issue is, when seeing something isn't working....why is it they never look back to see why it isn't working, and if maybe something that had been a business practice was better...go back to it! It's always change change change...well change isn't always better. I mean DCP is filled with posts blowing ratinales for things that have been changed to smithereens ( a&e bringing in more kids, fans etc).

And what Hop fails to see with woodwinds is sure...maybe more kids and their parents come. But there'd be an exodus of exisiting fans. The kind that won't go see Johnny and Susan when they are local. I'm talking the kind that see several shows a year and drop a lot on DCi related merchandise.Many fans have stayed and tolerated most of the changes, but adding woodwinds will drive many away.

DCM's pay structure was quite simple and was based off the DeKalb DCM Championship show.

In short, there was a certain amount of money for corps who fell into size range catagories, plus another amount based off the prelim score range. The two amounts were then added together to determine each corps' payscale for the next season. Larger the corps and higher the score=higher payscale (no matter what class)

[Peel Paint]

And what Hop fails to see with woodwinds is sure...maybe more kids and their parents come. But there'd be an exodus of exisiting fans. The kind that won't go see Johnny and Susan when they are local. I'm talking the kind that see several shows a year and drop a lot on DCi related merchandise.Many fans have stayed and tolerated most of the changes, but adding woodwinds will drive many away.

It is the line in the sand for a segment of the DCI fan base, including me. I've tolerated lots of changes I don't like, including electronics in its present form and narration in any form, but the day they admit even a soloist to DCI field competition, I won't hesitate to depart the fan base of DCI forever. Just flat out gone, wish y'all well, but gone without looking back. And I know there are others here who feel the same way. So Hop has to ask himself, Does he feel lucky? More in or out the door with woodwinds? He's pretty sure he knows, and maybe he's right, but it's a gamble.

[camel lips]

And what Hop fails to see with woodwinds is sure...maybe more kids and their parents come. But there'd be an exodus of exisiting fans. The kind that won't go see Johnny and Susan when they are local. I'm talking the kind that see several shows a year and drop a lot on DCi related merchandise.Many fans have stayed and tolerated most of the changes, but adding woodwinds will drive many away.

I kind of gotta wonder will it really? I mean fair weather fans seem to pitch their temper tantrums for a little while on stuff. Lots said they would be out when it went Bb. Then they said they would be out on the NArration and Singing. Then they said they would be out on electronics. Then they said they would be out on Mic'ed soloist. But yet here we are.

I feel certain there will be die hards that will leave on the wood wind issue.. YOU ARE LOOKING AT ONE OF THEM. I mean for the most part DCI has left me for the most part anyways. I do NOT travel to shows anymore. I use to go to about 5 a year. Now I catch 1!!! the MTSU show. And this year I did not even attend that. I feel the activity has grown into something I do not recognize with anymore. Many of the peeps that I use to go to the shows with and hang out with don't go anymore either and that was one of the driving factors for going to so many shows.

[Lincoln]

It is the line in the sand for a segment of the DCI fan base, including me. I've tolerated lots of changes I don't like, including electronics in its present form and narration in any form, but the day they admit even a soloist to DCI field competition, I won't hesitate to depart the fan base of DCI forever. Just flat out gone, wish y'all well, but gone without looking back. And I know there are others here who feel the same way. So Hop has to ask himself, Does he feel lucky? More in or out the door with woodwinds? He's pretty sure he knows, and maybe he's right, but it's a gamble.

I feel the same way. The all brass instrumentation of this activity is one of my favorite things about it. It just stirs my soul.

I don't hate woodwinds - I have watched multiple band performances and enjoyed quite a few. Putting them in a drum corps crosses the line for me though.