MikeD Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 As a long time trombone player, I just can't see them in DCI especially when baris/euphs are available. I see a good chance of bent slides as a result of some of the drills corps are doing these days. I don't know...these slides seem pretty flexible... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slingerland Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I have no problem with someone using a trombone or concert french horn as a soloist in the pit, though I'm not sure that either really adds a sound that we're missing now. Sousaphones, though? Please. Are there two bigger worldwide symbols for "geek" than short sleeve white shirts with a tie and pocket protectors, and the Sousaphone? As for "entertainment"....well entertainment according to who? Let's go ahead and add a "good" and "fan favorite" caption too, since they're just about as scientifically described. GE is amorphous enough as it is. We don't need more subjectivity introduced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamarag Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 again, DCA has this component in their system, and in no way has it called a show in favor for corps that get massive cheers Yea, but at the same time not even the DCA judges have any idea what the "communication" component is supposed to entail, and the wording is so vague it's essentially a throw away caption. Any DCI (or future DCA change, for that matter) absolutely MUST spell out, in detail, exactly what is to be judged when it comes to entertainment. If it's even the least bit vague or confusing, it will not improve the judging, or the perception of the judging, at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yea, but at the same time not even the DCA judges have any idea what the "communication" component is supposed to entail, and the wording is so vague it's essentially a throw away caption. Any DCI (or future DCA change, for that matter) absolutely MUST spell out, in detail, exactly what is to be judged when it comes to entertainment. If it's even the least bit vague or confusing, it will not improve the judging, or the perception of the judging, at all. IMO, part of the problem with it in DCA, beyond what you listed is....wait for it.....it's judged by the effect judges. So they have to judge GE the way everyone moans about it, then they have to add this in as well. the fix is really easier. ENFORCE THAT THEY JUDGE THE ACTUAL WORDS ON THE EFFECT SHEETS. Focus on usage of all parts of the triad of effect, not just go gaga because someone overloads their show with one third of it. honestly, i think the best effect sheet in the game today is the WGI percussion sheet. there's no top box, bottom box....what and how are in both boxes. the problem is you can't use visual folks on it if they don't understand the musical side of things well enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrownBariDad Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I don't know...these slides seem pretty flexible... LOL! Looks like the aftermath of the first (and last) time XYZ Corps tried trombones in their drill. Not to mention the busted chops, fractured wrists, and dislocated elbows/shoulders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Don't know if anyone has read them yet, but two rules proposals are on the agenda for the upcoming Winter meetings. The first is an instrumentation amendment that would allow for use of ANY brass instruments by DCI Corps, as versus the current bell-front only language in place. Would allow trombones, French Horns and Sousaphones on the field. The second is another version of an "Entertainment Effect" on the scoring sheets. Both proposals are made by the Madison Scouts. Thoughts on either or both? 1) instrumentation - I honestly don't care. It doesn't affect me in any way whatsoever (I don't teach, direct, or play). As long as shows aren't compromised, it doesn't matter, and I think a trombone "moment" or french horn "moment" could be awesome. A local HS band a few years back did a section in their field show where the mellos put down their horns and picked up concert french horns. It sounded BEAUTIFUL, and was a lovely contrast to the rest of their show. 2) an "entertainment effect" seems kind of goofy to me. Even the verbiage in the proposal seems REALLY vague, and if the point is to "recognize corps ability to communicate with the audience," "audience engagement" is already ON both effect sheets. Entertaining is such a vast concept: I can be 'entertained' by the film ANTICHRIST, as well as THE MUPPETS equally yet in completely different ways. There was little/no explanation or description in the proposal so it's hard to see where they are going. I suspect it's some sort of vanilla, "crowd cheering = entertainment = we should get higher score" when I can be infinitely more engaged by seeing/listening to Rite of Spring than Empire State of Mind though I'm not necessarily cheering like mad for Spring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 IMO, part of the problem with it in DCA, beyond what you listed is....wait for it.....it's judged by the effect judges. So they have to judge GE the way everyone moans about it, then they have to add this in as well. the fix is really easier. ENFORCE THAT THEY JUDGE THE ACTUAL WORDS ON THE EFFECT SHEETS. Focus on usage of all parts of the triad of effect, not just go gaga because someone overloads their show with one third of it. honestly, i think the best effect sheet in the game today is the WGI percussion sheet. there's no top box, bottom box....what and how are in both boxes. the problem is you can't use visual folks on it if they don't understand the musical side of things well enough Have you looked at the current sheets? I would say the GE judges are indeed judging to the verbiage of the sheets. The actual words on the effect sheets as they relate to this discussion/rules change: * "How effectively do the performers engage the audience through their excellence, communication skills, and emotional commitment?" It's all about "engaging" the audience, not necessarily "playing songs in an entertaining fashion in order to generate loud, sustained applause if not standing ovations." There are a myriad of ways to engage an audience, and only some of them involve making the audience cheer. Of course, that is a lot of subjective thinking. Personally "Empire State of Mind" didn't do a lot of me, and Phantom Regiment 2008 was good but not great IMO (musically performed great, design, especially visually, was meh IMO). That's different of course, but there are some DCI judges I know who feel that way as well, and obviously plenty of judges love Blue Devils' recent show designs (rightfully so) while some fans might not feel "entertained." I think we should all end this nonsense and just give out a legit "Fan Favorite" type of award. It should have no bering on the adjudicated score, and fans can vote for anyone they want to regardless of placement (i.e. Troopers could win Fan Favorite while coming in 15 place). That would let corps be recognized for designing shows trying to appeal to fans; fans could feel like a legit part of the judging system, and corps who want to continue to do shows that are academically engaging that might not have a toe-tapping/hand-clapping pop melody or theme can still succeed based on their merits & how they design to the sheets. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
84BDsop Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 One of the reasons given for going to Bb was cheaper costs for startup corps as some members could bring their own horns. And a G horn of ANY type from Kanstul is less expensive than a Bb from Kanstul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilkituba Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I thought adding electronics was suppose to change the sound "palette". Corps have had soloist miked mixed with effects to change the sound. I don't see adding these instruments adding anything unless you need a trombone gliss or stopped horn sound. Eliminate electronics on the field, and I'd be for adding these instruments. Sousaphone adds nothing to the sound except marching with a sousaphone vs marching tuba. Just watch BOA if you want to see both on the field. The entertainment category is too subjective. Corps B is not entertaining, but we don't want them to win, so we sit on our hands. Second place. Corps C is not entertaining, but we want them to win, so I'm going to yell as loud as I can. Win! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 And a G horn of ANY type from Kanstul is less expensive than a Bb from Kanstul. True but A) a lot of companies that also make percussion (Mapex/Jupiter; Yamaha, even Pearl is making marching brass now) don't make G bugles for less than Bb (that I know of: didn't see many/any at NAMM last week) and B) a kid in my band program has a trumpet he can take to audition for any corps. He does not have a G bugle, know the fingerings/transpositions, etc. Therefor by definition it would make it easier for a startup corps to use Bb/any key instruments than G horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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