Jeff Ream Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The overwhelming sentiment I hear is that few people want any attempts made to implement reasonable and sensible trransfer policies in place. They don't even want to discuss the pros and cons of it. Its out of the question to most, and totally off the table. Ok, I get that. No sense fighting a battle that few believe in. I'm not a martyr.' Don't want to die on a distant hill for no possible gain. But without a reasonable and sensible transfer policy in place, the notion that the Cadevaliers arn't going to win more than 80% of the DCI Titles over the next 35 years ( as they have over the last 35 years ) is to decide to purchase a dwelling where the Stepford's all live, and be in PretendLand where " if you just work hard and smart. you too can be a Blue Devils Corps " Oh really ? Without a reasonable and sensible transfer policy in place ? ( that All youth competitive sports have.. all the way down to little league, soccer, etc ) Thats almost fall down funny to me. Oh well, thats the long standing prevailing thinking it appears. It is what it is then, and so thats that. kids transferred n the good old days and yet shake ups happened there. so that fact renders your point moot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 It would be interesting to see how big drops correlate with folding within a couple years. 1973-1978 (six years) -27 -- 1976 Black Knights (15th>42nd)....maybe 5? -22 -- 1974 Argonne Rebels (11th>33rd)...8 or so? -21 -- 1976 Kilties (7th>28th)...6 or so +19 -- 1976 Guardsmen (31st>12th)...7 or 8 +18 -- 1977 Kilties (28th> 10th)..5 or do -17 -- 1974 Bridgemen (9th>26th)....13 +16 -- 1975 27th Lancers (20th>4th)...11 +16 -- 1978 Spirit of Atlanta (22nd>6th)...still with us +15 -- 1974 Blue Devils (24th>9th)...still with us -15 -- 1978 Seneca Optimists (8th > 23rd)...2/3? -13 -- 1973 Des Plaines Vanguard (7th>20th)..maybe 10? -13 -- 1974 27th Lancers (7th>20th)12 years +12 -- 1973 Commodores (24th>12th)...2/3? +11 -- 1975 Squires (24th>13th)maybe 4? +11 -- 1975 Precisionaires (25th>14th)not many +10 -- 1973 Madison Scouts (14th>4th)...still with us +9 -- 1973 Phantom Regiment (23rd>14th)...still with us -9 -- 1973 Bleu Raeders (12th>21st)...2/3? -9 -- 1974 Blue Stars (3rd> 12th)1/2? -9 -- 1978 Cavaliers (7th>16th)...still with us 1979-1983 -20 -- 1979 Kilties (12th>32nd)4 or so? -17 -- 1982 Guardsmen (15th>32nd) last year -11 -- 1980 Offensive Lions (15th>26th)2? +8 -- 1979 Troopers (20th>12th)...still with us +8 -- 1980 Seattle Imperials (23rd>15th) 2/3? +8 -- 1981 Freelancers (19th>11th)14 +8 -- 1982 Suncoast Sound (21st> 13th)...7 +7 -- 1983 Suncoast Sound (13th> 6th)6 +6 -- 1980 Cadets (16th>10th)...still with us +6 -- 1981 Santa Clara Vanguard (7th>1st)...still with us -6 -- 1983 Crossmen (7th>13th)...still with us +5 -- 1979 Cavaliers (16th>11th)...still with us +5 -- 1980 Crossmen (13th>8th)...still with us -5 -- 1980 Guardsmen (7th>12th)...2 -5 -- 1980 Freelancers (14th>19th)15 -5 -- 1981 Spirit of Atlanta (4th>9th)...still with us -5 -- 1981 Seattle Imperials (15th>20th) 2/3? +5 -- 1983 Spirit of Atlanta (12th>7th)...still with us 1984-1988 +13 -- 1986 Bluecoats (28th>15th)...still with us -7 -- 1985 Crossmen (10th>17th)...still with us +6 -- 1986 Sky Ryders (15th>9th)7/8? +6 -- 1987 Florida Wave (19th>13th)3/4? -6 -- 1987 Troopers (11th>17th)...still with us -6 -- 1988 Boston Crusaders (14th>20th)...still with us +5 -- 1984 Velvet Knights (17th>12th) 13 in WC, a few in OC a decade later -5 -- 1984 Sky Ryders (17th>12th)10 +5 -- 1987 Phantom Regiment (10th>5th)...still with us +5 -- 1987 Velvet Knights (12th>7th)10 in WC, a few in OC a decade later +5 -- 1988 Madison Scouts (6th>1st)...still with us 1989-1993 +8 -- 1993 Colts (20th>12th)...still with us +7 -- 1991 Sky Ryders (19th>12th)3 -6 -- 1989 Madison Scouts (1st>7th)...still with us +5 -- 1989 Freelancers (15th>10th)5 -5 -- 1989 Spirit of Atlanta (10th>14th)...still with us -5 -- 1990 Santa Clara Vanguard (1st>6th)...still with us +5 -- 1990 Crossmen (12th>7th)...still with us -5 -- 1990 Sky Ryders (14th>19th)4 -5 -- 1991 Cadets (1st>6th)...still with us -5 -- 1992 Phantom Regiment (3rd>8th)...still with us -5 -- 1992 Dutch Boy (13th>18th) 2 or 3 in WC, a few stabs at OC a decade later +5 -- 1993 Phantom Regiment (8th>3rd)...still with us -5 -- 1993 Sky Ryders (15th>20th)1 1994-1998 +8 -- 1996 Les Etoiles Dorion Vaudreuil (23rd>15th)...2/3 years? +7 -- 1996 Kiwanis Kavaliers (21st>14th)....10ish years? +6 -- 1995 Carolina Crown (17th>11th)...still with us -6 -- 1995 Blue Knights (7th>13th)...still with us +5 -- 1994 Magic of Orlando (16th>11th)...12 years +5 -- 1994 Troopers (19th>14th)...still with us -5 -- 1996 Glassmen (8th> 13th)...18 years -5 -- 1996 Troopers (14th>19th)...still with us +5 -- 1997 Glassmen (13th>8th)...17 yeards 1999-2003 -8 -- 2001 Blue Knights (6th>14th)...still with us +6 -- 1999 Boston Crusaders (15th>9th)...still with us -6 -- 2002 Carolina Crown (16th>10th)...still with us +6 -- 2003 Madison Scouts (14th>8th)...still with us +6 -- 2003 Carolina Crown (16th>10th)...still with us -6 -- 2003 Glassmen (8th>14th)...11 years 2004-2008 -6 -- 2004 Magic of Orlando (11th>17th)......2 years -6 -- 2007 Madison Scouts (9th>15th)...still with us +6 -- 2008 Blue Stars (14th>8th)...still with us +5 -- 2004 Capital Regiment (19th>14th)....2/3 years -5 -- 2005 Santa Clara Vanguard (3 rd>8th)...still with us -5 -- 2008 Academy (13th>18th)...still with us 2009-2013 -8 -- 2009 Phantom Regiment (1st-9th)...still with us +5 -- 2010 Madison Scouts (15th-10th)...still with us -5 -- 2012 Cavaliers (3rd-8th)...still with us +5 -- 2012 Crossmen (17th-12th)...still with us +5 -- 2013 Troopers (18th-13th)...still with us even into the early part of the 2000's, you saw corps make drastic jumps then die. So placement and staying alive often have nothing to do with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCorps Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 BRASSO would have a central governing body dictate how individuals spend their time and money in an attempt to compensate for competitive have/have-not inequity? Hm...That IS typically a successful solution in...wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Even into the early part of the 2000s, you saw corps make drastic jumps, then die. So placement and staying alive often have nothing to do with each other. It seems like someone else might have made pretty much that very point earlier in this thread, say ... eight months ago: I see some people have wondered whether big drops are indicative of corps that are soon to fold. In the early years, this seems sometimes to have been the case, and sometimes not. Back then, it seems to have been easier to restart your corps. (Speaking of which, has anybody noticed that DCA has a new video featuring Steve Rondinaro about corps that shut down and then came back later. Having only lately started to follow the all-age circuit, I had no idea about the Syracuse Brigadiers's history in that regard. Of course, they shut down again, after winning a mess of titles, but hope springs eternal...) But looking only halfway back in DCI's history, to the period 1989-1993 that I was discussing in the other thread, when three champions in a row dropped five or more places the next year, it doesn't seem that a big fall necessarily had any long-term repercussions: of the seven top 15 corps to drop five or more places in a year, two of them, Sky Ryders and Dutch Boy, were soon to shut down (although Dutch Boy came back a few years later as an Open Class corps and competed until 2009). -6 -- 1989 Madison Scouts (1st>7th) -5 -- 1989 Spirit of Atlanta (10th>14th) -5 -- 1990 Santa Clara Vanguard (1st>6th) -5 -- 1990 Sky Ryders (14th>19th) -5 -- 1991 Cadets (1st>6th) -5 -- 1992 Phantom Regiment (3rd>8th) -5 -- 1992 Dutch Boy (13th>18th) -5 -- 1993 Sky Ryders (15th>20th) Meanwhile, the most notable corps to go under in recent years, the Glassmen, only dropped slightly each year, from 10th to 12th to 13th to 14th before suspending operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 It seems like someone else might have made pretty much that very point earlier in this thread, say ... eight months ago: i know. i decided to do my own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gak27 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Additional data, FWIW: 1979-1983 timeframe -7 1980 Royal Crusaders (17th >> 24th) last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perc2100 Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 All corps that receive members from a lower placing corps benefit from the experience and training the member received in the lower corps. On the flip side the lower-placing/training/whatever you want to call 'em corps benefit from those members' services for the year(s) that they march and perform. The corps offers those members a one-season contract, the member fulfills said contract (assuming they pay fees and don't quit), and if the members is a high-achieving member the lower-achieving corps might gain significantly by utilizing them as a featured soloist or something. I marched in a non-finalist corps, with members I marched with who went on to SCV, Cavaliers, Scouts, Phantom Regiment, Blue Devils, etc (and other DCA Champion corps). Of course I wish they all would've stayed and elevated the level of our corps to Finalist status. We benefited with their talents and they left as members in good standing and I think trying to penalize the higher-achieving corps would be silly. Lower-achieving corps have to offer something for those people to want to stay, and Star of Indiana in the 80's or Madison Scouts a few years ago are examples of corps who made a big push to retain/attract members. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Cadets and Crown are similar in the way they take good kids and really work them and make them great where BD gets great kids and probably doesn't have to work at the same brutal pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornTeacher Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) Cadets and Crown are similar in the way they take good kids and really work them and make them great where BD gets great kids and probably doesn't have to work at the same brutal pace. You may very well be correct, Tobias. But there is this nagging little voice in the back of my head which is saying "That's too much of an over-simplification...not to mention a borderline backhanded slap against former and past members of the Blue Devils." I am reasonably sure that such was not your intent...but upon first (and second and third) reading it certainly comes across that way. Edited February 26, 2015 by HornTeacher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobias Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 (edited) No disrespect at all to the BD members. I think that is the destination of many extremely talented MMs especially in their final year where Cadets and Crown get talented kids but sometimes with less marching corps. I've been to Cadet camps and saw kids bouncing all over the place only to see an amazing corps in August marching like robots. Edited February 26, 2015 by Tobias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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