Neglecting the West - We need a real national tour

[ShortAndFast]

Wow you act like it's the worst thing in the world having finals there. The acoustics are night and day from when they were first at Lucas Oil until now. I've been to multiple finals and the last couple I haven't had a single issue with the sound. I know I'm not the only one that hasn't either but there will always be those that will hate it no matter what because it's in a dome and won't change their opinion until it's outside again.

It depends a lot on where you sit. But even at the very best - section 240, 340 - you lose basically any low voice staged behind the back hash to the ever-present echo. There's just no comparison to the live sound at stadiums like Madison or Invesco. And let's not even mention the sound if you find yourself in a mere Super Premium seat instead of FoDCI-land.

On the bright side, Lucas Oil is a good facility for recording drum corps, so it's resulted in much improved products in the theaters and on the DVDs.

Personally, I've been to more than a dozen finals, but I'm not going to back to Indy or Lucas Oil.

[wesleyrp]

Two things;

1. Where is this money coming from for all of these corps to travel out west. There is a reason they don't.

2. We need to get back to local/regional touring not national touring. The whole touring for thousands of miles a summer thing is the biggest reason why hundreds of corps folded. The financial burden just for east coast corps to stay east is enough.

I understand it stinks majorly. I would probably lose my mind, but we have to be realistic about touring schedules. What you are asking for will reduce the life expectancy of DCI very quickly.

I have been saying for years that we need to go back to a local/regional model. You are only allowed to compete in your region for the first 2/3rds of the season. Then the top corps from that region qualify to compete in a national tour that would last 2-3 weeks while the regional tours continue happening.

4 regions, top 5 or so from each region move on to the championship circuit.

Then corps 6 and below from each region can continue traveling locally competing for a regional championship.

This would mean more local shows for everyone, which equals lower ticket prices. You eliminate the necessity of a young corps to have to travel more than it needs to. This means more corps can survive on a smaller budget. Plus lower corps competing for regional championships will be much more enticing to new talent.

It's a no lose situation, and a no brainer.

If DCI needs help setting this up, they can PM me.

Bingo!!! Best post of the summer! Sat with a good friend, longtime brass staffer who said in no uncertain terms that corps fees and National Touring are killing the activity. I believe having 2-3 regionals that are optional based off regional location (Drums Along Rockies/Dci DeKalb etc) are logical unlike the Minneapolis/SA/ATL/Allentown/finals schedule. No one wants to go to the west when they know they'll have to go to Minn

[Lead]

Top corps are now approaching $4000 for summer tour fees, in addition to camp fees and travel costs (plus whatever other costs a corps may charge for this, that, and the other). And that's top Midwest and East coast corps who are not doing Cali-tour. I can't speak for what West coast tour fees are this summer.

I would tend to 100% agree with the above poster saying that fees and national touring are hurting the activity. As fans, we always want exactly what we want and "let someone else figure out how to do it." Seeing how corps and staffs travel in the parking lots, the turnover of equipment (AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, UNIFORMS FFS), and seeing corps being housed in REALLY nice places, I understand WHY that amount is so high, but I also wonder how much of that is completely necessary.

A good friend of mine said 12 years ago that at some point, the entire marching band activity (along with indoor everything) would eventually consume itself. I think it may be happening.

NBA/NFL/MLB teams can race to outspend each other. Non-profits can't. There needs to be support and collaboration to prevent them from - for a lack of a better euphemism - consuming their young. This activity is NOT professional sports, it's a youth activity. The "NEED TO WIN" a la professional sports has created this microcosm where - with no constraints on what a corps can do/spend - it's a race to spend the most cash.

IMO - we can argue the point backwards and forwards with no resolution and maybe that's what the internet is for. But if we have unregulated spending and un-commissioned decision-making, do you think 'certain' East coast corps are going to spend extra thousands of dollars on fuel to travel West, or are they going to spend those dollars on uniform changes, staff RVs, field litter, and more instruments imported from God-knows-where for their front ensemble?

I think the answer is obvious. How many corps played the "let's see who can release their NEW uniform design the latest" game this year? How many MORE vehicles are hauling around props this year? How many corps have a 2nd equipment truck because they've run out of room on the first one for all of their front ensemble instruments?

............. How many corps have folded since the advent (NEED) for electronics (i.e., spending) and larger membership sizes (i.e., less members to draw from, more equipment to haul, etc)? How many corps have we lost JUST because of the need to "keep up" with the top 8 corps?

Has the activity consumed its young? Very likely so.

Also - Why has the G7 conversation about breaking off from DCI gone away?

Anyone realizing that it's because... the goal has already been accomplished, and it's just taking time to get there?

[IllianaLancerContra]

Top corps are now approaching $4000 for summer tour fees, in addition to camp fees and travel costs (plus whatever other costs a corps may charge for this, that, and the other). And that's top Midwest and East coast corps who are not doing Cali-tour. I can't speak for what West coast tour fees are this summer.

I would tend to 100% agree with the above poster saying that fees and national touring are hurting the activity. As fans, we always want exactly what we want and "let someone else figure out how to do it." Seeing how corps and staffs travel in the parking lots, the turnover of equipment (AND FOR GOD'S SAKE, UNIFORMS FFS), and seeing corps being housed in REALLY nice places, I understand WHY that amount is so high, but I also wonder how much of that is completely necessary.

A good friend of mine said 12 years ago that at some point, the entire marching band activity (along with indoor everything) would eventually consume itself. I think it may be happening.

NBA/NFL/MLB teams can race to outspend each other. Non-profits can't. There needs to be support and collaboration to prevent them from - for a lack of a better euphemism - consuming their young. This activity is NOT professional sports, it's a youth activity. The "NEED TO WIN" a la professional sports has created this microcosm where - with no constraints on what a corps can do/spend - it's a race to spend the most cash.

IMO - we can argue the point backwards and forwards with no resolution and maybe that's what the internet is for. But if we have unregulated spending and un-commissioned decision-making, do you think 'certain' East coast corps are going to spend extra thousands of dollars on fuel to travel West, or are they going to spend those dollars on uniform changes, staff RVs, field litter, and more instruments imported from God-knows-where for their front ensemble?

I think the answer is obvious. How many corps played the "let's see who can release their NEW uniform design the latest" game this year? How many MORE vehicles are hauling around props this year? How many corps have a 2nd equipment truck because they've run out of room on the first one for all of their front ensemble instruments?

............. How many corps have folded since the advent (NEED) for electronics (i.e., spending) and larger membership sizes (i.e., less members to draw from, more equipment to haul, etc)? How many corps have we lost JUST because of the need to "keep up" with the top 8 corps?

Has the activity consumed its young? Very likely so.

Also - Why has the G7 conversation about breaking off from DCI gone away?

Anyone realizing that it's because... the goal has already been accomplished, and it's just taking time to get there?

This gives me an idea - It would be interesting to figure out 'cost per tour-mile' for each corps; divide total member cost for the summer (dues, fees, whatever) and the number of miles they travel, and see where the math takes us. Could also be done using entire corps budget divided by miles travelled as well.

I will try to find the numbers needed to do each; cost to members seems readily available. Perhaps milage too (can certainly be calculated albeit tediously). Total program budget maybe not so much - there can be confounding factors - How do you determine Cadets budget as a subset of the YEA budget? I am pretty sure YEA has these numbers, but they may not want to share them for this little science project. Place to start might be Garfield's calculations a few years ago...

[MisterA]

I agree that sometimes the West gets the bad end of the deal. Early season shows, with some of the top 7 corps leaving the area before the final shows in the area, is kind of disappointing for a bunch of people I would guess. I will say that the lineup for some of those shows, with BD, SCV, BK, Academy, Pacific Crest, Mandarins, BDB, and SCVC in attendence is a very good lineup. Defenitely better than some of the 4 and 5 corps lineups at some shows.

It is a shame they couldn't route it so there is a regional in Denver though. Even if it was close to what the Minneapolis lineup has been with 15 or so of the World Class corps would be great. If you could route the tour through Iowa and Nebraska, and maybe a couple of shows in Nebraska and Kansas along the way, and have a great big show in Denver with the Midwest corps meeting the Western Corps possibly in early to mid July. It would be kind of interesting also if they could do some of those 2 days shows along the way, like having 8-10 corps performing one night and then another 8-10 corps performing the next night on route to the full scale regionals. Especially in the larger college towns, like Iowa, Iowa State, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, etc. Maybe not at the college stadiums, but in those towns.

I think there is much more that could be done to accomodate the West. I have also wondered why they didn't sometimes start the G7 doing a series in California the first couple of weeks of the season.

[exitmusic]

there are fewer corps on the west coast, therefore there are fewer shows.

qed

[MikeD]

My guess , you are not including the " DCI judges you know " the DCI judge that brought the scores with him from a previous show ( he didn't judge at ) to the show he was judging at, then accidentally and embarrassingly ( to both himself, and DCI, and the judging community ) left behind that crumpled up scrap of paper in the booth with the previous placements, caption scores from the previous show. So my experience tells me, you definately don't know THAT DCI judge anyway apparently..

Oh, you mean the inexperienced DCI judge who was an experienced WGI judge, where the concept called 'knowing the neighborhod' was considered a Good Thing...the same judge who was removed from DCI assignments after the event you noted because it was something NOT considered a good thing in DCI.

[MikeD]

Two things;

1. Where is this money coming from for all of these corps to travel out west. There is a reason they don't.

2. We need to get back to local/regional touring not national touring. The whole touring for thousands of miles a summer thing is the biggest reason why hundreds of corps folded. The financial burden just for east coast corps to stay east is enough.

I understand it stinks majorly. I would probably lose my mind, but we have to be realistic about touring schedules. What you are asking for will reduce the life expectancy of DCI very quickly.

I have been saying for years that we need to go back to a local/regional model. You are only allowed to compete in your region for the first 2/3rds of the season. Then the top corps from that region qualify to compete in a national tour that would last 2-3 weeks while the regional tours continue happening.

4 regions, top 5 or so from each region move on to the championship circuit.

Then corps 6 and below from each region can continue traveling locally competing for a regional championship.

This would mean more local shows for everyone, which equals lower ticket prices. You eliminate the necessity of a young corps to have to travel more than it needs to. This means more corps can survive on a smaller budget. Plus lower corps competing for regional championships will be much more enticing to new talent.

It's a no lose situation, and a no brainer.

If DCI needs help setting this up, they can PM me.

Corps still have to feed and house all of their members all season long. They still have to drive and drive between shows. Even touring in a smaller geographic area will not reduce the travel costs all that much, if at all. Corps can only travel a certain distance overnight, and if they are criss crossing a smaller area it doesn't mean they are traveling less overall miles.

The members of the corps that are not permitted to attend championships end up paying the same amount of dues as if they were attending champs...that is one FAST way to hasten the end of the DCI organization, IMO, knowing that for some percentage of corps, the members are receiving a lesser experience for the same dollars.

Then logistics of multiple regional tours...are there sufficient show sponsors just waiting to host shows all ovr the country, knowing that for 1/3 of the season, only the lower scoring corps will be available????

[Photographer Jim]

just a few musings ...

As a West Coast fan (Bay Area) I find myself facing a definite dilemma with this issue. On one hand I would greatly love to have more opportunities to see more of the midwest and eastern corps live each year. With the exception of our two "home town corps" - BD & SCV, and (bless their hearts, BK) we seldom see more than one other DCI finalist out here in any given year. This year, although we are very pleased to have the Crossmen visiting for the first time in twenty years, we have no other finalist corps beside our standard three. On the otherhand, I understand and appreciate the logistical and financial constraints traveling to the West Coast imposes on those corps. To some extent, I believe that the problem is made more difficult by the long term contract to have finals in Indianapolis. Working backword from Indy, other major shows get somewhat locked in to their slots on the tour. Changing the tour to accomodate a West Coast swing on any large scale form will continue to be a logistical problem until finals go somewhere else (and with DCI headquartered in Indianapolis, I may be holding my breath for a long, long time before that changes). If I am realistic, i have to admit that it is the way it is. It is not an easy problem to fix, and it is more a matter of time, location, finances, and logistics rather than some intentional neglect by DCI.

I do feel their are some possible actions that might be tried however, and would encourage DCI to investigate how they might provide assistance. Two years ago, we had the distinct pleasure of having both Phantom and BAC come to the west for our early season shows. (Five finalists - count 'em - five all here at one time! What a treat!) What made it work so well was BAC's decision to hold their pre-season camp right here in sunny CA. What a win-win! They had our wonderful weather and we had the opportunity to have them at our shows (and to visit their practices as well). My thinking at the time was that I wished more midwest and eastern corps would consider this. This is where I think DCI could be of help. Arranging to have a corp hold camp here would be a big undertaking for most corps, but with DCI's help in making some of the arrangements, working out contracts, etc., more corps might be willing to give it a go. I'm not particularly greedy, but if a system could be worked out to guarentee just two other finalist corps out here each year it would go a long way toward lessening our West Coast frustration.

[luv4corps]

More drum corps out west, please.