Creativity at the Top

[Fred Windish]

I'm for whatever brings people to their feet and cheering in appreciation THROUGHOUT the performance. It's been done before, and must happen again. Happen for the entire audience at some point, not just family and friends. Honestly, I'm beginning to see a move in that direction. Will it continue?

[frachel]

Fans cycle in and out. My daughter for instance has never heard a corps do Appalachian Spring or Scheherazade. Nobody in my general vicinity knew the Conquest lick from Boston's show.. Personally I think there's more new fans than old, so it's all new to them.

Back to my daughter - she just saw West Side Story for the first time and loved it and the music. She said it would be cool to hear a corps do it. If you read DCP, there apparently should be a permanent moratorium on WSS.

[Precious Roy]

Back to my daughter - she just saw West Side Story for the first time and loved it and the music. She said it would be cool to hear a corps do it. If you read DCP, there apparently should be a permanent moratorium on WSS.

Not saying I agree with it or not, but I think the suggested moratorium is on NEW shows based on WSS. Thus, you could just show your daughter videos from the previously done WSS shows, and not violate the moratorium.

[flammaster]

I think now is more creative than it's ever been. The level of playing at every division is much more now. We get favorites and we get new concepts. It's a win win for everybody. I think 2014 is the start of a whole new era and it's going to get even better as things progress.

[DCIFanManLA]

Hey Everyone,

This year, for example, SCV is playing Scheherazade, realistically, it’s almost the exact same performance as 2004 (which was one of the greatest shows in history, IMO…BUT, it’s already been done). Meanwhile, the Cadets are playing Application Spring in a “Story of America” fashion; both of which we’ve heard umpteen times before.

These are the top corps of the activity. They have the most money, WANT the most money, and employ full time staffs comprised of the top talent in DCI. Forgive my bluntness, but this is the best you can come up with? Meanwhile, corps with much stricter operations (Pacific Crest, Spartans and Academy, for example), are putting brand new shows on the field filled with never-done, challenging, program – pushing themselves, and in the process, risking easy and safe points as a result.

Is this what we want out of the activity? We all know the trickle-down effect of higher-placing corps, and for this reason, shouldn’t those more creative and challenging shows be rewarded in some fashion? Otherwise, it’s DCI just a competition of “who can play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star the cleanest” – Ok, that’s to the extreme, but you catch my drift.

What do you folks think? Do you find yourself feeling more supportive of shows like Bluecoats, Boston and Oregon Crusaders (if only for their complexity and “making something out of nothing” aspects), or are you still enthralled, even when there’s a remake?

Wow - When I saw SCV's show in Glendora, CA, I said almost the same thing you said above. I am a HUGE SCV fan, but when they were done, I turned to my friends and said, "wow that sounded pretty amazing, but it could have been done 10 years ago. Not much new." I just didn't think it was very creative - BD had just performed and the crowd had gone crazy.

I think this is something that BD has made most of the other corps do. Since every year they are stepping out of yet another box (love it or hate it) and coming up with something else new, and doing it EXTREMELY well - and almost always being in the top 3, what are the other corps to do but follow. Those who don't - who try to live on some past glory, play Scheherazade again. Don't get me wrong, I think Scheherazade is beautiful. It's just been done. Those who do step out there and try to be inventive and new are almost always appreciated whether they win or not - BUT they gain respect by the crowds/judges/other corps in the process (provided that it's done well). Bluecoats are a great example to me this year. Their show is extremely inventive and played incredibly well - SO much better than their 2013 show to me. We'll see how they are rewarded in the end.

There is a lot more I could say about a lot of the corps, but we have seen several great posts from fans that have been saying the same thing in their own way. And miles to go before we sleep . . .

[1956OPR]

You raise some great points.

Obviously, there is a recognized need to please the fans....and that can be a roll of the dice because while some fans want the tried and true, some hate anything ever done again.

We're also told all the time with electronics, so much new music is available.....then we get the tried and true.

for corps like SCV or Cadets, doing pieces that were made legendary, it's hard to top the past versions, and for especially Copland, done to death ( granted Lincoln Portrait hasn't been, but I was never jonesing to hear that on the field anyway)

Then you have corps like Bloo and OC, taking some gambles. Boston, while a new show, is the music of dead white guys ( and one prominent director cried about "having' to play that stuff without the new toys....then he does that stuff most years anyway)

IMO, most creativity per se is on the visual side, and IMO, most of that's just borrowed from indoor. in my humble opinion, drum corps has hit a huge wall in terms of actual creativity and going beyond whats been done before. Pretty much everything "new" has been done in other subsections of the marching arts genre.

First, to DCIFan44, welcome to the Planet!

Re Jeff Ream's post, I think he is on point re the "indoor" factor and I have a question related to judging.

I have watched a few videos of indoor/WGI performances and, while the ensemble performances are enjoyable at times, the overall effect, IMO, is like watching a skateboard performance…ultimately, Box 5 boring.

My question is the extent to which today's DCI GE and Visual panels utilize individuals who also judge these indoor events, and the extent to which this indoor experience carries over and corrupts the GE and Visual captions.

Any thoughts on this?

Edited July 17, 2014 by 1956OPR

[jackroberts]

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread (lack of knowledge on my part) except that, for a first post, this was a phenomenal topic to start with. Well done!

[perc2100]

Hey Everyone,

Long time reader, first time poster!

I’ve been around Drum Corps all my life, but recently, I’ve found myself wondering about the creativity of certain corps; frequently from those of a typically “higher” ranking. I’m curious to see what you all think about my take:

This year, for example, SCV is playing Scheherazade, realistically, it’s almost the exact same performance as 2004 (which was one of the greatest shows in history, IMO…BUT, it’s already been done). Meanwhile, the Cadets are playing Application Spring in a “Story of America” fashion; both of which we’ve heard umpteen times before.

These are the top corps of the activity. They have the most money, WANT the most money, and employ full time staffs comprised of the top talent in DCI. Forgive my bluntness, but this is the best you can come up with? Meanwhile, corps with much stricter operations (Pacific Crest, Spartans and Academy, for example), are putting brand new shows on the field filled with never-done, challenging, program – pushing themselves, and in the process, risking easy and safe points as a result.

Is this what we want out of the activity? We all know the trickle-down effect of higher-placing corps, and for this reason, shouldn’t those more creative and challenging shows be rewarded in some fashion? Otherwise, it’s DCI just a competition of “who can play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star the cleanest” – Ok, that’s to the extreme, but you catch my drift.

What do you folks think? Do you find yourself feeling more supportive of shows like Bluecoats, Boston and Oregon Crusaders (if only for their complexity and “making something out of nothing” aspects), or are you still enthralled, even when there’s a remake?

i would not say Cadets & SCV are THE top corps of the activity: especially SCV, who hasn't been "the top" this millennium (1999 was the last time they won DCI, and haven't placed higher than 3rd since 2000, with that high-point (last time they did "Scheherazade") happening a decade ago. Cadets have won twice in ten years, and while that is incredible I wouldn't call them "the top."

Of course, that's splitting hairs and kinda irrelevant. From a design standpoint I would say currently Blue Devils are "the top," placing as low as 4th only ONCE in the last two decades, and winning DCI four of the last ten seasons (in that time-span, placing 2nd an additional FOUR times, making that 8/10 Champion or runner-up shows). But your point is taken.

The way I see it, there are two reasons for a corps to "re-do" a show/source material they have been previously successful with:

1) to introduce great literature to a new generation. This seems pertinent for SCV, since zero of their members were involved with their 2004 production, and AFASK zero of their designers (brass, percussion arrangers, visual designers) were involved with the 2004 show. Their 2004 show was definitely popular one with fans and judges alike, so I can see why SCV's design team would want to tackle that source material again.

2) to introduce a unique/new element(s) to older source material. Cadets are taking American music that the vast majority of fans are familiar with and possibly have heard on a DCI field before. However, the stage, design elements (presidential speeches in particular) and general theme celebrating Presidents of USA are unique to this literature for Cadets. They're combining new ideas with old familiar musical themes.

The only real question is "do these shows work?" From a composition and performance standpoint, both SCV and The Cadets seem to be very solid this season, and are placing competitively at this point. From a personal enjoyment, I probably stray more similar to you, where I would love to see these corps explore fresh new ground (thank you Bluecoats, Blue Devils, Crown, etc. this year for doing that!). Of course, plenty likely disagree with me, and there are obviously many fans who seem to be digging these shows so whatever. If Cadets don't do a ton for me, I only have to wait fifteen minutes for BD, or Bluecoats, or Cavaliers, etc. to see something different to get me excited so it doesn't really bother me too much. If everyone in DCI were doing "retread" type shows, I would be annoyed/bored but that's not the case this season. There are plenty of original ideas on the the field to go with the "kind of different concepts + old DCI 'standards'" type of shows Cadets and SCV (and do a slightly different extent, Scouts) are performing.

[chaos001]

First, to DCIFan44, welcome to the Planet!

Re Jeff Ream's post, I think he is on point re the "indoor" factor and I have a question related to judging.

I have watched a few videos of indoor/WGI performances and, while the ensemble performances are enjoyable at times, the overall effect, IMO, is like watching a skateboard performance…ultimately, Box 5 boring.

My question is the extent to which today's DCI GE and Visual panels utilize individuals who also judge these indoor events, and the extent to which this indoor experience carries over and corrupts the GR and Visual captions.

Any thoughts on this?

It's A LOT of the same people. It's inbred more than some royal families (or Mississippi).

[wesleyrp]

Hahaha laughing so hard Chaos but I think Arkansas may be the best Kissing Cousin State;)