Anstig Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 why because YOU think so?? - there's a massive gap in achievement right now between what BD is attempting and achieving and what Cavaliers are doing. IF anything the judging sheets don't adequately reflect the true gap so we end up with SCV "hot on the heels" of a corps like Crown. I really don't think crown is really all that much better than scv tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I really don't think crown is really all that much better than scv tbh. I know you're a #cavies4lyfe type of guy so just curious, comparing crown to cavies to SCV, how close do you see them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Dixon Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I really don't think crown is really all that much better than scv tbh. and the judges seem to agree with you, at least the other night. I was still shocked. SCV seemed like a 83 maybe 84 type score to me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcity Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 and the judges seem to agree with you, at least the other night. I was still shocked. SCV seemed like a 83 maybe 84 type score to me Secret DCI judging rule: a corps get an extra tenth of a point added to score for every championship won. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Secret DCI judging rule: a corps get an extra tenth of a point added to score for every championship won. That explains the huge spread between Cavies and PR!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quietcity Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 That explains the huge spread between Cavies and PR!!! And is the reason no one can catch BD. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N.E. Brigand Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) There's a massive gap in achievement right now between what BD is attempting and achieving and what Cavaliers are doing. This is an area where--and not meaning to pick on you specifically, as its endemic to DCP and much of the internet (and beyond: the announcers and even the interviewed corps directors and designers in DCI's broadcasts and cinema shows are rarely helpful in this regard)--much more detail would be helpful. It's no good for those who really know what they're talking about to tell others, "You'll just have to trust me that you're wrong." That approach merely turns people off. Those who have the time and the knowledge, if you can, please help others to understand why Blue Devils' or Crown's or Cadets' shows have stronger content and/or greater difficulty than Cavaliers' or perhaps Bluecoats'. (If in fact that's true. Part of the argument presumably will be something like, "BD's chord progression is more interesting than Cavaliers'." But dig deep enough, and such responses will be found to be begging the question: who gets to decide why one chord progression is more interesting than another? But that's true of all art and all evaluation of art. As John Simon famously said: "Critics are after something harder and more elusive: pursuing their own reactions down to the rock bottom of their subjectivity and expressing them with the utmost artistry, so that what will always elude the test of objective truth will at least become a kind of art: the art of illumination, persuasion, and good thinking and writing" [emphasis added]. DCP is very far from reaching that important "rock bottom".) Edited July 16, 2014 by N.E. Brigand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) But then Cadets won the Ott at Championships doing the same thing. They actually played an easier book that year (Angels and Demons) - at one point they did not play for 2 minutes and 10 seconds during the drum break and fight scene. But I guess that is considered innovative for them to do it. That's a long time not to play. Essentially programming a lip break in a show. That does not include the other parts if not playing in that show ......... GH was the first person to call when Star of Indiana's drum line had some breaks on their Philip Glass show. He was rabid about that and called everyone he could at the end of each show. I was right there - so....I think only certain groups are permitted to program breaks in their horn line or DRUMLINE. Crown actually has an element of difficulty in it's book when compared to of the other two TOC. Mallet runs are not hiding anything - IMO. I would have been surprised too, mainly because they didn't. oh and i'm sure people got you about the star show thing Edited July 16, 2014 by Jeff Ream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Ream Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 Dude, I really shouldn't, but another part of maturity is reading comprehension. I never said that the 86 Suncoast brass line was better than the 2013 Crown brass line. I simply agreed that the 86 corps receiving a 9.9 in Field Brass with 5 units left to perform, including 86 BD was perhaps a more impressive feat than Crown's "perfect" score last year. It is fairly obvious that Bill Doyle gave Suncoast a 9.9 with the intention of leaving room, just in case one of the five corps yet to perform did a better job on his sheets. None did, none even tied. Conversely, Crown went on last at finals, so the judges had already ranked and rated everyone else. They did not need to leave room, so if they felt that Crown deserved 10s, they could (and did) grant them. As to your comments about us "old men", you are painting with an awfully wide brush. John (Kamarag) is 2 years older than I am, has marched with and taught some of the best corps in the activity's history, and knows his ####. He is also a very vocal supporter of modern drum corps. Likewise, I feel you may have no idea who George Dixon is. I don't know his age, but I would guess it's in the same ballpark, and, in this thread alone, you will find him positively gushing about shows this year. Many of the other posters of "an advanced age" posting on this and other threads have been similarly very positive, myself included. I am not saying that the people you describe don't exist, of course they do. And when they spout their silliness, it tends to make all of us "legacy" fans look bad. Just like you calling those of us that actively support modern drum corps (see, I am not even calling them "brass bands" or some other foolishness) "old windbags" reflects pretty poorly on your generation of fans. So, read what we are saying. It is entirely possible to have marched in the 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s and still enjoy the programs out there today. I know that I do, else I would not be going to Allentown next month, nor would I have attended at least one live show nearly every year since I aged out, including Finals in 1996, 1997, 1998, 2003 and 2005. I think that you (like many younger fans) are seeing criticism of a corps that you apparently really like and interpreting that as some sort of slam against all modern corps. Personally, I feel that Crown's show last year was at or near the absolute pinnacle of a perfectly designed and executed show, minus a (comparative to the rest of the corps) weak drumline. I felt that from about this point last year up to and through their Finals performance. This year, the corps is also very, very good, but they have not hit that point of greatness, yet. Will they? Perhaps. Are there other shows that I, personally, enjoy more this year? Yep. Guess what, that's ok. /soapbox illegal use of logic and truth. owe me a drink in Allentown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cappybara Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 I would have been surprised too, mainly because they didn't. oh and i'm sure people got you about the star show thing Yeah agreed. How about we give that Ott winning Crown 2011 hornline the credit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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